Fake Vintage Watches?

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Magnus
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Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Magnus »

I am constantly on the look out for vintage watches.

Is there a big market for fake ones?

I have just returned from Thailand and you see the most recent watches there for buttons - they are horrible and clearly fake (even the 'good' fakes) and I would never buy one. Do these chancers go to the trouble of doing fake vintage ones?

I do a lot of looking on eBay and you see a lot of nice looking vintage watches there - however, they are regularly from Turkey and the Ukraine. I know the former is full of fake modern watches and the latter seems dubious also.

Are there any locations that you would dismiss off hand as the likelihood of mistakenly buying a fake is too high? I find that feedback isn't always a great indicator as many people would not discover the fake until they took it to a dealer for service/repair which may be some time later.

So, does anyone have any tips on avoiding fake 'vintage' watches?
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by akirk »

get to know the brand / detail - do the research
see if there is a forum / enthusiasts group for the brand
question the seller - ask for detailed photos etc. - if they aren't happy to comply, then there might be issues...

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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Tyke »

Ebay;

Lots of different vintage now coming from India / Thailand,
Girard Perregaux from Argentina / Uruguay

Love the look of lots of them, but wary of buying fakes & not knowlegable enough to spot a good 'wrong un' so havent bought any
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by ianblyth »

Philipines are bad for franken watches and India sees to take vintage watches and redo them - but not always sympathetically.

The tourists shops that sell the fakes are modern watches as that is what attracts the people who are not into watches.

The maxim is - if someone can make money out of it then they will do it.
That would apply to vintage watches as well.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by poppydoodlesdad »

A lot of the stuff from India has had dial "refurbishment" often in garish colours and not very well done. Insides might be original but are often in a poor state (might just need a service) but are just as likely to be cannibalised or be rattling around in the case. Trying to find a reliable supplier is difficult / risky especially on eBay as they have, shall we say, exaggerated positive feedback.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Aifo »

Fakes, that is right up my alley as I am probably geographically closest to the origin of all fake products, the all mighty China. You can find some of the "best" modern replicas there are without much difficulties. In fact the industry is so established there are villages of hard working labour depending their living on these products, working in extremely well facilitated factories which, incidentally, also manufacture parts for other genuine watch brands. And sadly that is not even a secret nowadays.

Fake watches are, although fundamentally completely unethical and despicable, just another consumer goods, and so in principle operate under the same market parameters and profit orientated. So in theory all popular models have fakes, and if there are enough interests in certain vintage watches I believe it's almost definit that some kind of replicas, or fraken-vintage, exist and being sold.

Some more tales on fakes:

There are fake eggs, they can be fried, boiled or scramble and look quite like the real deal, but obviously taste differently and zero in nutrition value.

Well known rumor in China, a business man going bankrupt attempted suicide by injecting some poison,he survived, deeply regretted and realized he should celebrate life and family love so he took home some wine and made a nice dinner for his family, only that it was his and his family last meal. Why? Both the poison and wine are fake. I doubted it really happened but can't say I am surprised if it did.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by chip247 »

I've noticed lots of ukranian sellers of vintage watches recently & wondered the very same!
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Kip »

Ukraine, Israel, and Argentina and several others, are great sources for a lot of "marriage" watches.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

I had a couple of dodgy vintages in the early days of my oddesey, without ever touching the Bay. They were bought for very from dealers at flea markets ("collectors' fairs), so no great loss when they went to the charity shop. I kept just one , which is actually a nice watch:
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I know I've said this before, so excuse the repetition: the rest of my vintage watches have come from local watchmakers who provide guarantees, answer their phones and are in their premises every Saturday morning. Except one from a member of this forum, about which I had no worries.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Saffy »

+1 on them being frequently franken watches that may have seen a hard life - "refurbished" with aftermarket crystals, dials, hands. Colour combination that do not match the serial number. Cold Gold plating galore.
But not always... talking of personal experience with the same seller - fit for junk pile one time, an untouched lovely another.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by village »

Basically do not buy anything from the Phillipines or from India.
Buy with care from South America,Ukraine & Israel for the reasons already mentioned.

Best advice is to just read up on your subject...knowledge is power as they say. It's still a difficult area though...
Seiko,for instance,are faked incredibly often. It's a little known fact that when Seikos reach a certain age they are mystically drawn to migrate to the Phillipines where,on certain nights of the year,they can be found all partaking of an orgy of reproduction whereby their **** offspring are flogged of on Ebay and street stalls.
If you Google something like 'how to spot a fake seiko' then there are loads of useful sources of information.
If you can read this you are too close to your computer screen....
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by akirk »

the other thing to consider is condition - a vintage watch in perfect condition is not hugely likely - if it is then either it has been very well looked after - or it might be a fake...

Look for condition changes comensurate with age - e.g. dial markings / wear on case / etc.
If there is a hallmark (like in the case of the optima I posted about) it is probably going to be worn a bit - but not huge amounts (protected) - gradually over time you learn what is right and what isn't - like any other antique or old thing!

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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by robert75 »

chip247 wrote:I've noticed lots of ukranian sellers of vintage watches recently & wondered the very same!

They sell a lot of Gagarin watches claiming they are originals for the 60s 70s 80s etc..... Poljots and other vintage Russian watches that have recently increased in price. Sad thing is you can still buy a genuine Russian mechanical watch for very good value for money, same goes with Chinese watches. Although a lot of those out there claiming to be "Vintage watches" Are not technically so they are very good Seagull watches working well and cheap as chips. I would personally avoid purchasing a "Vintage Breitling" Though but then again probably wouldnt buy a brand new one either :lol:

A lot of sellers have lots of positive feedback because they mass sell at very low prices and for every 10 items they sell some of them may be half decent, some the buyer didnt bother to check the watch and some the buyer just didnt bother to leave any feedback. I had a bad experience buying a HMT watch from India, the hour and minute hand were running at the same speed for a few hours then gave up completely. After much struggle with ebay I did finally get my money back.

That being said there is plenty of tat being sold by UK sellers on ebay so if you are looking to buy a vintage watch you are probably better off buying from a real market or car boot sale (As it will be cheap enough for you to not be too bothered if it does come off bad. I picked up an old Sekonda for £2 once they are going on ebay for £10 -£15 for some reason) Buy from a high street jewellers, or buy from someone you trust over the forums.
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by Monkey »

chip247 wrote:I've noticed lots of ukranian sellers of vintage watches recently & wondered the very same!
There seems to be a lot of converted pocketwatches coming out of Ukraine over the last few years. These are often genuine movements, and even dials, although a lot seem to be 'redone' and look even more garish than the 'Mumbai specials' :shock:

These watches are re-cased in modern made cases and can be 50/55mm in diameter :schockiert:

As for fakes vintage watches?? Well, can't say I've come accross any modern one's, but have seen a few suspicious one's that look to have been done back in the day.

However, its frankenwatches you have to be carefull with, as the market is flooded with them, especially the more sought after makes, ie Omega/Rolex etc. I actually saw a Tissot on ebay last night that had a 60's case and crown, but a 50's dial, so i emailed the seller to 'ask the question' & got a curt 'that's how I got it' reply, so you can buy the seller, but if you dont know what your looking at, and it turns out that they don't either, then their feedback isn't always much use and your leaving yourself wide open!!

Knowledge is power.........as they say :)
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Re: Fake Vintage Watches?

Post by ianblyth »

I have been thinking about franken watches. As long as it works correctly, looks good to you and at a price you are happy with, is there a problem? After all one of the benefits from an automatic is that it can be serviced and keep going for generations but during services bits are replaced that are worn out. So over time it will morph with whatever spare parts are available.
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