GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

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ScofieldReturns
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GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by ScofieldReturns »

Hello, I have a question for you guys.

Background: I just sent my CW Trident C60 GMT in for repairs for the THIRD time in 6 months. After purchasing and a couple months of wear, some dust got knocked loose and stuck to the inside of the glass. They cleaned it and repaired it for me...but this led to some occasional date wheel sticking issues. I sent it back in and they repaired that (along with a bezel misalignment).

The issue: I get it back...and now I notice the GMT hand is misaligned by 5 minutes. This was something I had checked for previously so something happened either in repairs or via shipping. I email them, including pics and they tell me they will fix it. I receive an email from them today after receiving...and it says that it is "within tolerance". I'm especially miffed because the issue was caused by them via the last round of repairs, I sent in pics and was told it was fixed, and it's international shipping which, while free, still is time consuming. If they didn't intend on fixing it, why insist I ship it over when they can see the tolerance via my pictures?

Discussion: I would like your guys inputs if this amount of alignment would bother you guys/should be considered within tolerance

Disclaimer: I will continue to wear and enjoy the CW regardless, but we all want our watches to be as perfect as possible.

Pictures: You can see that the GMT hand hits the marker perfectly at 5 til the hour, but once it hits the hour the hand is already off the marker
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drand
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by drand »

Hello and sorry to hear of the comings and goings of your GMT. It's a very good-looking watch. If it were me I would not be happy with the response that it is in tolerance, and I would suggest to CW that if they don't sort it out I would send it back and spend my money with another brand.

However, if you can live with it and enjoy the watch as is, then do so!

I can't comment on whether it really is in tolerance - I have not seen a tolerance published for the watch or the movement - but my gut feeling as an engineer is they are fobbing you off, and my gut feeling as a purchaser of moderately expensive watches is the same.
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

When I got my C60 Elite GMT a couple of months ago, I set it along with the GMT hand.

Initially, the GMT hand was running 10 to 15 minutes off.

However, after a couple of hours, it settled down and self-adjusted to the correct time. Perhaps there had been some slack in the movement, which got taken up with running it.

How long has yours been running off for?

Guy

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ScofieldReturns
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by ScofieldReturns »

drand wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:21 pm Hello and sorry to hear of the comings and goings of your GMT. It's a very good-looking watch. If it were me I would not be happy with the response that it is in tolerance, and I would suggest to CW that if they don't sort it out I would send it back and spend my money with another brand.

However, if you can live with it and enjoy the watch as is, then do so!

I can't comment on whether it really is in tolerance - I have not seen a tolerance published for the watch or the movement - but my gut feeling as an engineer is they are fobbing you off, and my gut feeling as a purchaser of moderately expensive watches is the same.
Glad i'm not the only one that would be irritated by this. I wouldn't return it as that window has expired, this model is no longer in production and I still actually really like it.
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:26 pm When I got my C60 Elite GMT a couple of months ago, I set it along with the GMT hand.

Initially, the GMT hand was running 10 to 15 minutes off.

However, after a couple of hours, it settled down and self-adjusted to the correct time. Perhaps there had been some slack in the movement, which got taken up with running it.

How long has yours been running off for?

Guy

Sent from my Xperia 5 using Tapatalk
I've had this watch since last December now. This recent iteration I wore it for about a week
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by drand »

ScofieldReturns wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:34 pm
Glad i'm not the only one that would be irritated by this. I wouldn't return it as that window has expired, this model is no longer in production and I still actually really like it.
Apologies, I assumed it was the new model. I suppose choices are you learn to accept it, make more of a fuss to CW or get another watchmaker to fix it for you. It may be worth wearing for a solid few days just in case it sorts itself out, which also gives you some thinking time.
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

"Within tolerance"...

A standard "minute" on a watch dial is 6° of arc. So a normal hour hand covers 6° in 12 minutes and a GMT hand in 24 minutes, with each elapsed minute covering 0.25°. This would indicate that a 5-minute discrepancy comes out at 1.25°. (Please check my maths - I'm notoriously bad!)

Tolerances for timekeeping are published in the manuals - those for hand alignment are not. However, the statement "within tolerance" suggests that, ipso facto, figures for those tolerances exist.

Conclusion: ask to see them.
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ScofieldReturns
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by ScofieldReturns »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:01 pm "Within tolerance"...

A standard "minute" on a watch dial is 6° of arc. So a normal hour hand covers 6° in 12 minutes and a GMT hand in 24 minutes, with each elapsed minute covering 0.25°. This would indicate that a 5-minute discrepancy comes out at 1.25°. (Please check my maths - I'm notoriously bad!)

Tolerances for timekeeping are published in the manuals - those for hand alignment are not. However, the statement "within tolerance" suggests that, ipso facto, figures for those tolerances exist.

Conclusion: ask to see them.
Thanks, good idea I have emailed them to ask. My main concern now is it sounds like they already initiated the process of sending the watch back over to me. My DHL guy is probably tired of seeing me and the same watch :lol:
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by JAFO »

It's hardly a "tolerance", I think. You see enough you tube videos explaining how to remove and install hands, and it shouldn't be too hard to get all the hands to align to the same hour mark correctly.

You could get an independent watchmaker to reset the hands, although I appreciate it would be galling to have pay for it.
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by ScofieldReturns »

JAFO wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:48 pm It's hardly a "tolerance", I think. You see enough you tube videos explaining how to remove and install hands, and it shouldn't be too hard to get all the hands to align to the same hour mark correctly.

You could get an independent watchmaker to reset the hands, although I appreciate it would be galling to have pay for it.
That would also theoretically void the 5 year warranty (have just over 4 years left)
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A1soknownas
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by A1soknownas »

It is not acceptable for them to fix your watch under warranty but then return it with a different issue instead.

It may not be their fault and it could have happened during shipping which is out of their control. However, it is in their control to fix it, and they should. Don't worry about returning again, you can only buy online, and they ship international so it is their business to deal with it. Afterall, your username does say Returns!

Having the hands aligned is hardly a tolerance issue. They are either aligned or not. It is simply pass or fail.

Maybe if you purchase another watch from them for $1000 you could just send $950 and claim it is within tolerance :)

Hope you reach a satisfactory outcome.
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by triffidman »

I think I go along with the majority of the responses as well. For a device who's only job is to tell the time, and in this case in multiple timezones - for 1 of those timezones to be 5 minutes wrong ALL THE TIME is not acceptable at all.

It may well be within their tolerances, but it wouldn't be within my tolerances, and certainly shouldn't be within yours...seeing as you've raised the question, it clearly already isn't. This need sorting, and I hope it turns out OK for you in the end.

These tolerances which CW often tout are either:

a) an excuse for poor craftsmanship
b) an absolute disgrace for them to claim that their product is going to be 5 minutes wrong all the time, and that's OK with them


Either way, I would personally find such disrespect for the intelligence of the customer quite a insult.
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by triffidman »

A1soknownas wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:22 pmMaybe if you purchase another watch from them for $1000 you could just send $950 and claim it is within tolerance :)
Love this by the way!! :thumbup:
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by H0rati0 »

Whatever happened to "The customer is always right"?

Now we hear: "within (confidential) tolerance" instead.

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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by Thermexman »

What if...

The watch was fine until it traveled back to you. So, did transit upset it?

You send pics and they say “send it back” because they see the issue.

Transit back upsets the position again and when they look, the issue is less than it was and therefore, now in tolerance with nothing to correct?

So, it may be fine when you get it back?
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Re: GMT hand alignment allowable tolerance

Post by senna2000 »

This isn't going to be helpful, but when I used to have a 2014 https://cwarchive.knack.com/cwarchive/# ... 9b80b619a/ it never seemed to line up for me. But I wasn't too worried about it. I sold it last year and I never heard of any complaints.
But if you have three issues, I would simply ask for a new watch! But as you said, you want to keep it as it is out of production. Perhaps take it to an indy watch repair shop?
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