Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Here you can post stuff that is not related to Christopher Ward
User avatar
PaulJS
Senior Guru
Senior Guru
Posts: 711
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:31 am
CW-watches: 6
Location: North Devon

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by PaulJS » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:12 pm

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:01 pm
Loving it, mate. Especially getting 60-65 mpg in normal traffic conditions for my 12 mile commute. And that’s without holding up the YMPWs or GKHWs any more than I’m being held up by the garden centre mob in pale blue Micras. The two wheeled Darth Vader lookalikes are a different matter of course, but I’m small enough for them to take advantage of their usual 20 cm manoeuvering space. :wink: *

* Having fun as usual. Tick, tock... :lol:
Ah that brings back motoring memories of living in Norfolk ( 2001 - 2007 ) where the two main hazards were silver heads in Micras travelling at a steady 29 MPH and young trainee F1 drivers trying to achieve Warp speed in their Corsas ( with very loud exhausts, naturally ) along the southern bypass.

At the time I was a Darth Vader lookalike and 20cm is far in excess of the minimum required passing space - the laws of physics dictate that the faster you come past the smaller the gap required 8)

Cheers,

Paul
Trident Pro White / Blue
C4
Omega Speedmaster II LE
Omega Speedmaster II original-ish
Trident Pro Black/Blue
C70 VW4
C65 LE
C7 MK 1
Scurfa Diver One

DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by DavecUK » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:26 pm

My old man always used to say the faster you go the slower you arrive and do you know what.......he was wrong!

P.S. For modern cars of course...in his day, if you drove too fast on a long journey the car usually broke down...

User avatar
smegwina
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 11757
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:04 am
CW-watches: 11

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by smegwina » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:26 pm


PaulJS wrote:
smegwina wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:08 pm
TigerChris wrote: If our lass read that post she'd ask if you were my twin! Image Image Image I spend half my life saying 'don't get me started' regarding the ever increasing amount of do-gooders and PC red tape bu11s51t
Utterly useless if you do reasonable mileage, but for smaller journeys they are a great choice.

The technology needs to mature before it becomes a true replacement.

Trouble is, I am now at a loss.... I was planning to replace my current vehicle with the new version due out next year, only to find that the new model will only be available as an electric model!!! Image

The irony is that they do have one of the final ones ever made in the dealer which is the 575hp version. Talk about going from one extreme to another......

Going to test drive it at the weekend Image. Tempted to grab it before they bring out the emasculated new wuss model Image

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Presumably this is the XJ due in 2021?

If so I must agree that getting your hands on the last of the full fat models is a no brainer.

In any case, a Jag without a large capacity internal combustion engine is just a cardboard cut out of a car. It's the engines that give these cars their personality be it straight 6, V8 or V12.

Where's the character going to come from when the only difference in vehicles is the size of the washing machine motor attached to each wheel?

In any case, the last of the proper XJs will undoubtedly become a classic so enjoy it for a few years then put it away for occasional leisure use when you later gravitate towards a Zanussi.

Cheers,

Paul

PS don't forget the sticker for the back end saying 'doing my bit for global warming one mile at a time'!
Hi Paul,

It is the XJ indeed. I love mine. Drives so much better than the S class, 7 series or the A8. Many don't like the new shape, but I have got used to it.

Didn't realise it was 2021 for the new model. Pah.

I have no doubt that the new electric one will be a superb car, but it just doesn't appeal.

One real issue for me with going all electric is the way that the car is essentially written off when the batts die.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Tapatalk


User avatar
smegwina
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 11757
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:04 am
CW-watches: 11

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by smegwina » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:41 pm

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
smegwina wrote: The irony is that they do have one of the final ones ever made in the dealer which is the 575hp version. Talk about going from one extreme to another......

Going to test drive it at the weekend Image. Tempted to grab it before they bring out the emasculated new wuss model Image

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Tapatalk
If you get the opportunity Nick, take a test drive in the Jaguar iPace (400bhp and 350+ mile range).

My brother's father-in-law has one (in Norway) and my brother was driving it recently whilst over there on holiday. He reckons that it is one of the best vehicles he's ever driven and this is from a Petrol head who knows his Supercars.

One thing he found though was that my niece got car sick in it as it just has a progressive whine instead of the usual rise and fall of engine note as you move through the gears.

As soon as my brother made brm, brm noises (like a child might when pretending to drive a car), Kristi was fine.

Guy

Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk
Thanks Guy. I shall certainly try it, they have a great look and I have no doubt that dynamically it is a superb car but I am just not sure I am ready for electric.... They have so many positives, but the range is a killer for me.

Nipped into the dealers today on the way home and have asked them to book me in for a shufti.

Also had a look at the car for this weekends drive....... Damn thing is only available in bright blue!!!!!

One question for the leccy boys.

Plug in Hybrids..... Do they also act like a normal hybrid if needed? The range on electric seems derisory, so I was wondering if you could top 'em up on a longer journey?

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Tapatalk


DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by DavecUK » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:48 am

I did actually get the BMW i3 Rex (Range extender) a good technology that should be the stepping stone for electric. Instead it seemed BMW hated their baby and killed the Rex version which is no longer available in most all countries with the release of the car with a 120aH battery or about 40kw and a claimed 175 of range (I suspect it goes further). I have a 31 kW hour battery and have no problem in summer getting from 150 to 175miles of electric range. Then I have the range extender which gives me a further 100 miles from it's 2 and a bit gallon tank. That's 250 miles total...but it gets better. I can stop refill the tank and go another 100 miles and again and again. So a 3 minute fuel stop gets me 100 miles of range each time.

This gives 2 massive advantages
1. Rather than have a huge battery for the 5% or less journeys that need it I can lug around a small battery. I can do really long journeys, whether there are charge points or not. I also don't have to stop for 40 minutes+ to get an 80% charge, or queue, or worry about the charger being out of order.

2. Charging en route is as expensive as filling with fuel for the same miles, but takes 40-45 minutes longer

So we have an electric car with a much smaller battery (good thing), able to do tesla length and longer trips without chargers, can work as an only car and gives a sensible stepping stone to electric cars for a nation where the infrastructure couldn't support electric cars if adopted by even 20% of motorists. Later as battery tech and our electrical infrastructure improves, then the range extender cars can be phased out.

Unfortunately the all or nothing approach, or hybrids that pretend to be electric but have a pathetic 20 mile range and cut in the engines above 60 is what we have.

I have had electric cars for over 5 years now so feel I have a pretty good handle on the real way forward...and for the short to medium terms, it's not ever larger battery packs.

what-time-is-it
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2975
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by what-time-is-it » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:17 am

Announced yesterday - a first look at the new VW ID.3

Current collection incl Alpina, Breitling, Casio, Citizen, Eterna, Oris, Rado, Rolex, Seiko, Tag, Timex & Tudor.

Chris

User avatar
Paul Drawmer
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:42 am
CW-watches: 10
Location: Deddington, Oxfordshire
Contact:

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Paul Drawmer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:51 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:48 am
I did actually get the BMW i3 Rex (Range extender) a good technology that should be the stepping stone for electric. Instead it seemed BMW hated their baby and killed the Rex version which is no longer available in most all countries with the release of the car with a 120aH battery or about 40kw and a claimed 175 of range (I suspect it goes further). I have a 31 kW hour battery and have no problem in summer getting from 150 to 175miles of electric range. Then I have the range extender which gives me a further 100 miles from it's 2 and a bit gallon tank. That's 250 miles total...but it gets better. I can stop refill the tank and go another 100 miles and again and again. So a 3 minute fuel stop gets me 100 miles of range each time.

This gives 2 massive advantages
1. Rather than have a huge battery for the 5% or less journeys that need it I can lug around a small battery. I can do really long journeys, whether there are charge points or not. I also don't have to stop for 40 minutes+ to get an 80% charge, or queue, or worry about the charger being out of order.

2. Charging en route is as expensive as filling with fuel for the same miles, but takes 40-45 minutes longer

So we have an electric car with a much smaller battery (good thing), able to do tesla length and longer trips without chargers, can work as an only car and gives a sensible stepping stone to electric cars for a nation where the infrastructure couldn't support electric cars if adopted by even 20% of motorists. Later as battery tech and our electrical infrastructure improves, then the range extender cars can be phased out.

Unfortunately the all or nothing approach, or hybrids that pretend to be electric but have a pathetic 20 mile range and cut in the engines above 60 is what we have.

I have had electric cars for over 5 years now so feel I have a pretty good handle on the real way forward...and for the short to medium terms, it's not ever larger battery packs.
I make no apologies for quoting the above in full. It is an interesting and valid comment on range and battery packs, which I had not thought of previously. I wonder what the main influence has been on BMW dropping the range extender variant of the I3? In Dave's argument, it makes no sense, and I can only guess that there are other considerations for the manufacturer to consider.
There's always time for one more.

DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by DavecUK » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:01 am

Paul Drawmer wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:51 pm
I make no apologies for quoting the above in full. It is an interesting and valid comment on range and battery packs, which I had not thought of previously. I wonder what the main influence has been on BMW dropping the range extender variant of the I3? In Dave's argument, it makes no sense, and I can only guess that there are other considerations for the manufacturer to consider.
I think it gave a level of complexity that made the car a little less reliable 4K more expensive and in the UK market with the break being at 40K pushed the base spec car above that limit. If you get a higher spec car which most do, then you are way above it. The concept as I explained earlier I feel is the right one. My range is about 160m in summer, + 100 on the range extender and then I can just keep topping up every 100 miles. The battery is fine for 95%+ of my driving.

With the way things are with battery packs and charging infrastructure the government should have actively encouraged this sort of approach...instead with the additional issue of the car being above 40K, just because you have the range extender capability cars built after April 17 also get £140 road tax and I think may have to pay congestion charge. You could really make it up could you!

Had the concept been incentivised, we would have seen electric cars with even better range extender solutions than the BMW, which already gets 53 mpg on the range extender as a generator supplying electricity to the cars electric motor. In addition, BMW could have made the tank 3 gallons instead of 2.

Having driven electric cars for over 5 years now I can say that they are wonderful to drive, I would never go back to a Petrol car now.

User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 21281
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 29
LE-two: 1
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:39 am


DavecUK wrote: In addition, BMW could have made the tank 3 gallons instead of 2.

Having driven electric cars for over 5 years now I can say that they are wonderful to drive, I would never go back to a Petrol car now.
You can always carry a five litre can of petrol in the boot.

Guy

Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk

C20 FLE |C4 |C5A MkI |C5 BOB |C6 |C7 MkI 47AD |C7 MkII Harrier |C7 Auto Chrono |C70 x2
C8 MkI |C8 RegMkII |C8 M2.04 |C8 UTC |C9 FLE |C9 Me109 SPC |C60 K'fisher x2 |C60 FLE x2
C60 Apex |C60 Chrono P'type |C65 Khaki |C600 x2 |C1000 |C4&W7 BBMF

User avatar
H0rati0
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:49 am
CW-watches: 3
Location: Bayern

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by H0rati0 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:03 am

Quartz vs mechanical. You know it makes sense.

I am going to go out and buy myself a V12 classic of some description for sunny days.
"There is no beginning to enlightenment and no end to training" - Dogen Zenji (1200-1253)

User avatar
nigelb001
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1104
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:47 pm
CW-watches: 2
Location: South Wales

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by nigelb001 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:06 am

H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:03 am
I am going to go out and buy myself a V12 classic of some description for sunny days.
Mercedes SL65 AMG sounds like an ideal candidate :D
CW C6 Kingfisher + C7 Rapide / Breitling Top Time + Superocean / Bulova Curv Titanium 98A162
Laco Memmingen / Tissot PRS516 Auto + PRS516 Chrono / Seiko Padi Turtle

DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by DavecUK » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:45 am

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:39 am
DavecUK wrote: In addition, BMW could have made the tank 3 gallons instead of 2.

Having driven electric cars for over 5 years now I can say that they are wonderful to drive, I would never go back to a Petrol car now.
You can always carry a five litre can of petrol in the boot.

Guy

Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk
Not really the boot is part of the interior, a hatchback and it's small enough already without a can of petrol. There is a small frunk where you can put a metal petrol can holding around 6-10 litres, or perhaps a plastic can. I purchased a metal one for that purpose, but the concern as always is a frontal impact...I thought after that plastic might have been safer than metal...who knows. On a long journey, I sometimes carry one but petrol stations are still quite frequently found.

The real trick with the range extender, if you know you will be using it, is to not wait until the main traction battery is full, but to stick it on early. e.g. for a 170 mile journey I wouldn't turn it on until it self engages as in summer I can get up to 174 miles range. For a 230 mile journey, I would engage it at about 60 or 75%. This is because it smooths out the loading on the petrol engine to generate the 1.21 gigawatts required to run the traction motor. When the battery is really low it revs it's guts out to generate required power to bring the battery back up....when the battery is at a reasonable state of charge, it can be far more leisurely about returning the state of charge to the point it was when you engaged it. you also have the advantage of the optimum fuel economy scenario as well because the motor can work within it's best range. Once ,you know you have the reach to get home with minimal battery, you can simply switch off the range extender and complete the rest on electric.

The American ones don't do that (they have to be recoded) because the stupidity of their emission laws demanded it only ever engage at 6% traction battery and cannot be engaged at will by the driver. The problem is the engine runs suboptimally and would actually create more emissions...so stupid of the politicians. They can also enter low power mode...really not ideal.

User avatar
H0rati0
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1126
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:49 am
CW-watches: 3
Location: Bayern

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by H0rati0 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:40 am

nigelb001 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:06 am
H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:03 am
I am going to go out and buy myself a V12 classic of some description for sunny days.
Mercedes SL65 AMG sounds like an ideal candidate :D
no, no, something exotic but reasonable in price (older). That should do nicely to offset the next ice age.
"There is no beginning to enlightenment and no end to training" - Dogen Zenji (1200-1253)

what-time-is-it
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2975
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by what-time-is-it » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:54 am

Couple of niggles with the i3 when we had one this time last year for a couple of days - fixed rear windows on the back door, and you could really feel the weight of the car on undulating roads - possibly due to 18" wheels that were fitted. Yes it's a nice car, but a couple of weeks later they introduced another upgraded battery and ditched the REX.

Watching the EV market with interest, but having had an EV a couple of years ago we would only go back to an EV vehicle again when a realistic range is 250 miles + in all conditions, the charging network is more reliable and the vehicle prices are more realistic.
Current collection incl Alpina, Breitling, Casio, Citizen, Eterna, Oris, Rado, Rolex, Seiko, Tag, Timex & Tudor.

Chris

DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by DavecUK » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:28 pm

what-time-is-it wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:54 am
Watching the EV market with interest, but having had an EV a couple of years ago we would only go back to an EV vehicle again when a realistic range is 250 miles + in all conditions, the charging network is more reliable and the vehicle prices are more realistic.
yeah, I personally hate BMW..but was the only game in town when I bought.

I think based on your requirements (red lines) you will have a fairly long wait. Then what will really ****$ people off is when charging an EV becomes much more expensive than petrol, for a car that will still cost significantly more. This is before the government to get their cut will do something equally horrible, ultimately making motoring cost a lot more than it does today.

The government hating the motorist wouldn't be so bad if there was a decent public transport infrastructure.

Post Reply