QC Issues C9 Chronometer - Excellent Resolution by Mike France

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
User avatar
A1soknownas
Junior
Junior
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:40 pm

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by A1soknownas » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:16 am

richtel wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:16 am
DavecUK wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:49 am
If I were Mike the solution would be simple and I would offer the customer 2 options and let them choose and for clarity Mike did offer a refund but that's not my preferred course of action. [/b]
  • 1. Offer a movement swap (not a repair) no questions asked with a guaranteed turnaround time (that would be the basic minimum and doesn't really delight the customer)

    2. Or invite the customer to the shop to pick out whichever SH21 watch they liked of similar RRP and let them take that away with them. If the RRP was significantly more, offer the watch at a 50% discount. (this is how to delight the customer)

If I were offered these options with what's available now...I would choose this watch and pay Mike the extra £215 based on a 50% reduction:


https://www.christopherward.co.uk/c65-t ... -sh21-le-1

I would go away delighted and Mike would have my existing return to repair and sell at some time in the future...a win win all round. In fact if I were Mike, I would probably not take the extra money, or give a free service voucher linked to the watch movement number. Thus ensuring the customer a decade of worry free enjoyment.
I'm going to stick my neck out and disagree wholeheartedly. Your contract was to buy a watch at 50% off- a watch they chose to discount because it was end of line or a slow-seller. They have failed to provide you with a watch of suitable quality so have breached the contract. You have a right to expect a total refund- that's it. To expect them to give you something that goes way above the retail value of the item you bought is hugely unrealistic.

It's like me buying a second hand 1 series at the BMW dealer which turns out to be a lemon, and expecting them to provide me with a new M5 with me paying only the difference between the M5 and a brand new 1 series. Unrealistic.

They screwed up, they've offered a total refund. Take it.
There is a difference between dealing with a problem at a basic level and owning it.
CW have an opportunity, not a problem.

I cannot speak for the OP but hypothetically when you buy something you can either be dissatisfied (0) or satisfied (10), 5 being the minimum expected. When someone receives a substandard product, they are having an experience they should never have and personally incur more that than the monetary outlay of the initial purchase and their satisfaction would be at 0. Even with a refund this will not return to a 5 as they will have lost from the sale (money plus emotion), and not themselves broken even, unlike the company. However, if addressed properly CW could still potentially have a satisfied customer.

This is bigger than short-sighted profits on a single transaction. If CW believe in their products they could and should go above and beyond in these situations as they will be a rare occurrence and so would not impact the bottom line of the company over the long term. In fact, by doing this bad publicity becomes good and people are more likely to buy in the future knowing that CW own problems if they do occur, increasing their future turnover.

StrapMeister
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:29 pm
CW-watches: 12

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by StrapMeister » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:41 pm

I clearly sympathise with the OP with regards this matter and find it totally unacceptable - how it passed QC is beyond me. However, I think that you can only expect 2 resolutions to this:
1. A refund;
2. A repair (ensuring that the movement is inspected and checked for any damage).
C60 FLE (Red JAG); C60 Trident 316L LE (Orange, Blue/Orange, Yellow, Black/Yellow); C60 Ombre LE.
C65 Trident Bronze SH21 LE; C65 Trident GMT.
C9 Moonphase; C9 Pulsometer LE; C9 FLE; C8 MkII.
Blood Bikes EVS https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/

meinberg
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:06 am
CW-watches: 2
Location: Melbourne

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by meinberg » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:37 pm

StrapMeister wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:41 pm
I clearly sympathise with the OP with regards this matter and find it totally unacceptable - how it passed QC is beyond me. However, I think that you can only expect 2 resolutions to this:
1. A refund;
2. A repair (ensuring that the movement is inspected and checked for any damage).
A refund is obviously one option, however a repair is not, how much damage has the movement suffered? Given the ongoing issues with QC would any of us reading this and the many other stories of poor QC trust a repair?
Given the circumstances of the purchase and the fault, I don't think it is unreasonable for the OP to expect a replacement watch, a bit tough on CW maybe, but that is the cost of doing business and maintaining a reputation, oh, wait, they are maintaining their current reputation by offering a repair on a watch that should never have left Switzerland in its current state.

I have over 4 years warranty on my last purchase from CW, at this rate I expect to have to use it, and wonder if they will still be around to honor it.
There are a few watches in their collection that I would like, at this point in time I cannot consider purchasing another CW, the owners appear to be blind to the issues within the company or maybe just don't care enough?
Oris, CW, Tag and a few others.

Mikkei4
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2279
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:20 pm
CW-watches: 0
Location: Berks

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by Mikkei4 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:46 pm

"I cannot speak for the OP but hypothetically when you buy something you can either be dissatisfied (0) or satisfied (10), 5 being the minimum expected."

If 10 is "satisfied" then 5 cannot be the minimum expected - 10 is the minimum.

I don't buy anything to be less than fully satisfied with it.

DavecUK
Senior
Senior
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by DavecUK » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:50 pm

StrapMeister wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:41 pm
I clearly sympathise with the OP with regards this matter and find it totally unacceptable - how it passed QC is beyond me. However, I think that you can only expect 2 resolutions to this:
1. A refund;
2. A repair (ensuring that the movement is inspected and checked for any damage).
If it ever happens to you, with a screw and metal tab clattering around the innards of a movement doing goodness knows what damage...you are welcome to accept a repaired movement, I absolutely will not. If key parts have to be replaced, is it the same movement that received certification. Do I trust that all damage will be repaired, because it's a lot easier to assemble a new movement than disassemble, properly inspect, clean, repair and reassemble a potentially damaged one. In fact common sense would indicate it's probably cost neutral (or even cheaper) to just put another movement in it.

Assuming you are correct (and you probably are), then I would be compelled to take a refund (which is really just a failure all round) and that will be the last time I ever try to purchase/recommend a CW watch. I suspect if you were in my position and understand the potential for all sorts of damage, some hard to detect and may not become apparent for a few years...you would not be so keen to have the movement repaired. I am also sure that your customer experience has been nothing but positive, mine so far has not been, so you have to forgive me for being very wary of a "repair"

Personally I hope Chris Ward will be better than this if they are aspiring to be half the company they want to be...

P.S. As I said before my friend purchased a CW watch after hearing I had done so and had a completely different customer experience to me, but he is keeping his fingers crossed that everything remains OK with his purchase. So CW can delight customers.

StrapMeister
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:29 pm
CW-watches: 12

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by StrapMeister » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:40 pm

Let me just clarify point 2...
To my knowledge this C9 is no longer in production so, if you really like the watch, the only route/option is a repair.
If a repair is indeed possible then fine but I would personally want some reassurances.
However, my preference would be a replacement movement (assuming that one is available).
I suspect if you were in my position and understand the potential for all sorts of damage, some hard to detect and may not become apparent for a few years...you would not be so keen to have the movement repaired.
I'm very well aware of the potential damage that can be caused - I happened to have been to a Customer Service centre (not CW) and seen first hand how watches are completely disassembled, inspected and repaired.

The point I'm trying to make is that realistically you only have 2 options.
C60 FLE (Red JAG); C60 Trident 316L LE (Orange, Blue/Orange, Yellow, Black/Yellow); C60 Ombre LE.
C65 Trident Bronze SH21 LE; C65 Trident GMT.
C9 Moonphase; C9 Pulsometer LE; C9 FLE; C8 MkII.
Blood Bikes EVS https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/

meinberg
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:06 am
CW-watches: 2
Location: Melbourne

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by meinberg » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:50 pm

StrapMeister wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:40 pm
Let me just clarify point 2...
To my knowledge this C9 is no longer in production so, if you really like the watch, the only route/option is a repair.
The C9 has a SH21 movement, so a replacement is a realistic option.
Oris, CW, Tag and a few others.

cl11
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:08 pm
CW-watches: 1
Location: San Jose, CA, USA

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by cl11 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:52 pm

that's terrible. you would only know about it now 'cuz u have an exhibition caseback. the trident c60 i'm wearing everything doesn't have it, and would not know whether something is loose or not until something got damaged as a result.
-Charles

CW C60 Trident Pro 600
ventura v-matic EGO (2019 version)

DavecUK
Senior
Senior
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by DavecUK » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:20 pm

cl11 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:52 pm
that's terrible. you would only know about it now 'cuz u have an exhibition caseback. the trident c60 i'm wearing everything doesn't have it, and would not know whether something is loose or not until something got damaged as a result.
Even if something happened and you sent it in under warranty, there is no guarantee you would know why it went wrong and what was fixed based on other threads I have read about warranty work. You are correct though, the exhibition case back allowed me to inspect much of the movement to find out where it had come from...my eyes are not what they used to be, but a few high res photos and some 3x optics and I was good to go. :)

I'm still fairly confident that they will end up doing the right thing...I'm quite a trusting person and things usually work out OK in the end. I have consulted for quite a few successful companies since I have retired and it's always based on trust. Usually they seek me out to trouble shoot stuff.

There has been mention of my contract with CW to buy a watch and expectation for a business contract all that sort of thing. I always remember what a very successful businessman once told me. If the lawyers were right, they would be running successful companies that make stuff. Real business goes beyond what's in a contract or sale of goods act. It takes a lot of work to build a brand that says in the consumers mind.."buy this and whatever happens we will make it right", like that old saying no one ever got sacked for buying IBM.

Chris Ward is British, with a massive opportunity to create a great brand on the back of the superb SH21 movement. If they can get to the place where any potential customers know if they buy a CW watch you're going to be delighted, they always have your back....that's fantastic for them. On the other on the side of the coin is a knowledge of the cost of everything, any legal obligations and never the success that could have been.

MarkingTime
Expert
Expert
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm
CW-watches: 5

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by MarkingTime » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:16 pm

It's issues like this that seem to be far more common than they should be, that confirms that CW are not anyway near being the prestigious brand that they desire to be seen as.
As much as I'd like them to pull their socks up, there really doesn't appear to be any desire to do so, from the management.

If I were to think of a suitable pairing with CW and a British car brand, I would not be thinking Morgan, but more along the lines of British Leyland.

Sad, but true.

DavecUK
Senior
Senior
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by DavecUK » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:59 pm

MarkingTime wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:16 pm
It's issues like this that seem to be far more common than they should be, that confirms that CW are not anyway near being the prestigious brand that they desire to be seen as.
As much as I'd like them to pull their socks up, there really doesn't appear to be any desire to do so, from the management.

If I were to think of a suitable pairing with CW and a British car brand, I would not be thinking Morgan, but more along the lines of British Leyland.

Sad, but true.
I think that any company growing will suffer issues like this, how they deal with it is critical. I know how I would advise any company I consult for to deal with it and I know what CW should do.....it's really down to them now. It can be turned around and made into a marketing win for them, or they can simply meet their contractual and sale of goods obligations. It is for Mike France to decide whether my customer experience is a "well I got my money back" all the way thru to a "wow, I am delighted with the way they handled that"....the 1 to 10 experience mentioned by someone earlier.

Just to recount a story, friend of mine who owns an espresso machine factory in Italy sent a £3200 machine to someone in the UK...there is a fault that the fit of the case isn't right and could never be made right by the user. He got it at a special discount (paid about £2350) with a parts only warranty and ex exhibition (as part of the deal)...so really not much he can do contractually.. I found out that an e-mail from his customer had been missed and had a word with my Italian friend, I told him what he had to do. I said he had to tell the person to use the machine until the factory reopens again in September, they will build him another perfect machine and send it to him, then arrange to have the old machine collected. This way the person would not be inconvenienced without a machine. My friend didn't want to do it, but I said, if you don't feel the pain, then you will never solve the QC issues, you need to delight the customer. You need to make it right in a quality way. In a few weeks I will check with my friend to make sure he has done it!

Nowadays I consult mainly for fun and will only work with the best....in customer service. I'm happy to give CW the benefit of the doubt and am confident that they will do the right thing to become the best.

User avatar
Markornot
Expert
Expert
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:08 am
CW-watches: 5
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by Markornot » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:42 pm

MarkingTime wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:16 pm

If I were to think of a suitable pairing with CW and a British car brand, I would not be thinking Morgan, but more along the lines of British Leyland.

Sad, but true.
Does this mean their quartz watches are powered by Lucas?🤔😬😏
Mark
CW - C8 Flyer, C6 JHMk3, C7 Corsa Rosso LE, C3 Chronograph, C8 Reg | TAG Heuer F1 | Orient - Black Raven II, Bambino, Star Seeker GMT, Galant, Monarch | Seagull - Grn Military, Moon Phase | Tissot - Visodate | Steinhart - NavA Pilot MW, NavB Vintage

MarkingTime
Expert
Expert
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm
CW-watches: 5

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer

Post by MarkingTime » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:28 am

Well, my comment was perhaps a bit harsh, but you get the gist. :)

User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 21065
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 24
LE-two: 1
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer - Excellent Resolution by Mike France

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm

Noticed that the title of the topic has changed.

Image

Excellent news and sorted in a very timely manner. Image

Guy



Sent from my Xperia XZ Premium using Tapatalk

C20 FLE |C4 |C5A MkI |C5 BOB |C6 |C7 MkI 47AD |C7 MkII Harrier |C7 Auto Chrono |C70 x2
C8 MkI |C8 Reg MkII |C8 M2.04 |C9 FLE |C9 Me109 SPC |C60 K'fisher x2 |C60 FLE x2
C60 SH21 |C60 Chrono P'type |C65 Khaki |C600 x2 |C1000 |C4&W7 BBMF

TigerChris
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2553
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:51 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: The right side of the Pennines

Re: QC Issues C9 Chronometer - Excellent Resolution by Mike France

Post by TigerChris » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:10 pm

It sounds like Mike has, obviously, sorted things. Looking forward to the report on whats happened.
If it’s not from Yorkshire it’s sh1te!

Post Reply