Seagull 1963 poor service

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MorrisOx
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Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

I’m sure there’ll be a few people who spot where this post is heading right away: the European importer of the Chinese Seagull mechanical watches is in Belgium, and up until Brexit kicked in it was offering good value mechanicals at very good prices.

Not anymore.

I bought a Seagull panda chrono, went all the way through the buying process, all shipping costs included, yours for £254. Except it wasn’t. Two months on and I received a letter out of the blue from DHL demanding £61 for customs costs within seven days.

Why? Well, Brexit etc - we’re no longer in the EU. I messaged Seagull 1963 to ask why they didn’t point out that there’d be a (significant) additional cost at the point of ordering. The response:

“We cannot mention the price higher because European union countries don't pay custom duties. Infact it's not up to websites to make it clearer but on to customers to know.“

So now you know. If there’s a problem ordering from Seagull 1963…well, it’s your problem, not theirs.

No asking for sympathy - lesson learned on my part about ‘shipping costs’ not being a reference to customs duties. But the tone of Seagull 1963’s response was basically ‘what do you expect at this price?’. I expect clear communication about price, which I don’t think is too much to ask.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

£61 is 20% of the cost plus a bit of handling, which is the going rate.

My recent Invicta's arrived with no surcharge but I have just realised the invoices show a price and zero VAT. I was certainly expecting to be charged VAT on the import. Invicta do clearly warn that UK customers can expect to be charged VAT

On the same point I am no longer buying from AliExpress, as I am sure for even a £2 bezel insert I would end up paying £8 royal mail handling. That's ok on a £100 watch, but not on a £2 bezel.

eBay now add the VAT for you into the price on any applicable goods. I bought some bankers boxes which included a VAT add on. I thought they were coming from NI, but they actually came from the Republic (well they actually came from a UK warehouse, surprisingly) - still the cheapest.

On the other hand someone on Watchuseek mentioned an oceanx watch, and their NL website shows a price net of NL VAT, which they charge to non EU customers, so if you do get charged UK VAT, it doesn't actually increase the price. Oceanx is seriouswatches.com, out of interest. Nice watches and transparent charging.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by exHowfener »

£61 sounds reasonable with U.K. V.A.T. at 20% plus 'handling/admin' charge but the vendors really should knock off their own country's tax, shouldn't they? I frequently browse an outdoor suppliers website in Finland and at the start of 2021 all their prices for shipment to U.K. reduced to account for tax no longer being charged at source.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

It isn’t so much the £61 I resent as the fact that Seagull 1963 made it abundantly clear that their policy was NOT to tell you (unless you waded through the small print).

Their website is pretty basic and updating it to offer a post-Brexit customs warning would be child’s play. But no - say nothing and see if customers blink when they get an invoice out of the blue, from a third party, which puts the price up 25%.

That’s just poor in my book.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by Neil b »

AliExpress also add vat at checkout now
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

Neil b wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:43 pm AliExpress also add vat at checkout now
Do they? That's great. I can buy from them again then. Thanks for the tip. :thumbup:
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by tikkathree »

JAFO wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:48 pm
Neil b wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:43 pm AliExpress also add vat at checkout now
Do they? That's great. I can buy from them again then. Thanks for the tip. :thumbup:
Yes, in fact I got this link for you https://www.aliexpress.com/af/seagull-1 ... 0514044909. Enjoy. :wave:
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by JAFO »

Where does it say they add VAT. Is that just at the checkout? I can't see any FAQs about despatch etc.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by Neil b »

It shows up when you go to checkout with the total price inc vat
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by Lavaine »

MorrisOx wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:41 pm It isn’t so much the £61 I resent as the fact that Seagull 1963 made it abundantly clear that their policy was NOT to tell you (unless you waded through the small print).

Their website is pretty basic and updating it to offer a post-Brexit customs warning would be child’s play. But no - say nothing and see if customers blink when they get an invoice out of the blue, from a third party, which puts the price up 25%.

That’s just poor in my book.
An unreasonable expectation to be sure. What is more reasonable? For a business to know and be able to quote the applicable duties, taxes and other fees for every one of the 190+ countries in the world, or for the buyer to be aware of the import duties and taxes applicable to his country? Even Amazon doesn't quote exact duties and taxes at checkout. They take a deposit at checkout, as it is virtually impossible to know the exact landed cost, and refund the difference if it is lower than quoted. To expect a small retailer to do the same or better than the largest retailer in the world is, quite frankly, beyond ridiculous. Time to adjust your expectations.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

Hmmm…curious reply.

Where, exactly, did I say I expected them to list all customs duties for all different counytries?
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by golfjunky »

I thought we signed a free trade deal?
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by jkbarnes »

MorrisOx wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:07 am Hmmm…curious reply.

Where, exactly, did I say I expected them to list all customs duties for all different counytries?
“I expect clear communication about price, which I don’t think is too much to ask.”

I think it’s the underlying implication of a comment like that. The whole tone of your original post is that it’s this company’s job to make you aware of whatever tax burden might be incurred by you.

Later on in another comment you say “their policy was NOT to tell you (unless you waded through the small print).” When I’m ordering from an overseas website, that’s EXACTLY what I do! Your comment suggests the company did make reference of some sort to potential taxes or duties, you just didn’t read it. I would think someone in the UK might be especially tuned in to these things at the moment, given BREXIT. Maybe I’m wrong.

Burden’s on you for not doing your own due diligence, if you ask me. This post just sounds like sour grapes.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by MorrisOx »

No; the tone of my post is that there had been a change likely to impact on price which I simply wasn’t aware of…until I received a bill, out of the blue, from a third-party who I’d never done business with, six weeks after the goods were received.

There was no warning at any point in the customer journey - placing the order, making the payment, receiving email confirmation, tracking my order. Nothing of any kind. I’m an ordinary Joe - my understanding of shipping is that it covers the cost of, er, shipping from supplier to customer.

I’m not expecting Seagull or anyone else to list every tariff for every country. But it’s entirely reasonable to expect that they’d flag at the point of purchase that, for example “additional duties may be payable if you are ordering from outside the EU”. I’d also expect them to warn me where these fees might come from if it’s not them.

As it is, there was nothing to tell me I would have to pay 25% more. Unless I just happened to scroll down to the bottom of the website and look through terms & conditions.

You weren’t party to the tone of the conversation I had with Seagull 1963. It intimated that it was too complicated to put such a warning on their website; my clear impression from a series of emails was that infact they didn’t really want to.

It isn’t too complicated (they've just put a 15% off banner on the website in the past couple of days!); it is simple, good, transparent customer service.
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Re: Seagull 1963 poor service

Post by Martin »

I am not sure whether the OP resides in the UK, I assume so. I have also purchased products within the EU prior to 31/12/20. However, I am very aware that quite different rules now apply and that VAT and other fees may now be payable. Information as to how much should be available from the UK but either isn't or is non specific. One business in Belgium I used frequently has now filed for bankruptcy due to this issue.
Prices in the UK from British companies selling the same products after going through new import rules and regulations have to inevitably pass these increases on to the consumer. I understand this and have the choice whether to pay the higher price or not. It is not incumbent on the EU country to either know or inform me or anyone else in the UK what taxation levies I will have to pay to my government.Why should they?
Sorry, not a lot of sympathy here either.
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