I’ve noticed something strange going on with the IWC mark XVIII, I've not checked this out extensively but a quick look at Berry’s jewellers shows me this. (Note the watch in question and the price being in pounds are not important to the point I’m making)
Here we have a Mk XVIII on a bracelet with a list price of £4,650
https://www.berrysjewellers.co.uk/watch ... viii-p6029
Note the movement reference in the details. It is an IWC calibre 30110 and on the watchbase website, here are details of that movement.
https://watchbase.com/iwc/caliber/30110
It’s essentially an ETA 2892-A2, The arguments about how much IWC do to these movements is again not important here.
Now here we have the exact same watch sold at the exact same jewellers, a Mk XVIII on a bracelet but this time costing £4,850
https://www.berrysjewellers.co.uk/watch ... iii-p11221
So what’s the difference? Well a quick look at the specs shows this to have a different movement, this time it’s an IWC calibre 35111. Again watchbase has more details
https://watchbase.com/iwc/caliber/35111
Note that this movement is based on the Sellita SW300-1
So is the price increase just because the Sellita based watch is newer, have IWC stopped altogether with ETA movements and the “cheaper” watch is just old stock, or does the Sellita movement have more value than the ETA?
How can IWC justify a £200 increase in price by the use of an almost identical movement, I can’t think other brands that do this so is it just because IWC can?
What are your thoughts?
ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
Iain’s Law: Any discussion on the Christopher Ward forum, irrespective of the thread title or subject matter, will eventually lead to someone mentioning the Bel Canto if the thread continues for long enough.
- watchaholic
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 1909
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:28 am
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: NE North Dakota, USA
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
My guess is new stock vs. old. Hard to believe there would be an up charge for Sellita over ETA. Moreover, and a bit off your point...how can IWC, Day and Ross, as well as many others, charge 4x the money as CW for watches with essentially the same engine?
Time and money? I’ve spent most of mine on booze and women. The rest I just wasted…
Dwight
Dwight
- Thegreyman
- Trusted Seller
- Posts: 12066
- Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm
- CW-watches: 6
- Location: Edinburgh
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
On the IWC website the list price is £4,850 and the movement stated is the 35111 so that does appear to be the newer model. Unless the price rise is just down to an across the board price increase by IWC.
Patrick
C60 Pro 300, C60 Sunrise, C63 Sealander Lucerne blue LE, C65 Dartmouth, W11 Amelia (wife), C63 Sealander (son)
Some others + a few on the way
C60 Pro 300, C60 Sunrise, C63 Sealander Lucerne blue LE, C65 Dartmouth, W11 Amelia (wife), C63 Sealander (son)
Some others + a few on the way
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
Day and Rosswatchaholic wrote:My guess is new stock vs. old. Hard to believe there would be an up charge for Sellita over ETA. Moreover, and a bit off your point...how can IWC, Day and Ross, as well as many others, charge 4x the money as CW for watches with essentially the same engine?
As for IWC... Not sure how you can even put CW in the same sentence, let alone try and compare the two.....
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
- watchaholic
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 1909
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:28 am
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: NE North Dakota, USA
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
If they are using the same base movement for some, not all, of their watches which they do if you believe watch base, it's easy. Lots of overpriced stuff out there. Just my opinion.
Time and money? I’ve spent most of mine on booze and women. The rest I just wasted…
Dwight
Dwight
-
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm
- CW-watches: 5
- Location: Alberta, Canada (The Great White North, eh!)
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
Unless I'm mistaken (it happened once ), Christopher Ward has never released a watch with a 2892 or SW-300, so the comparison is not accurate.watchaholic wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:01 pm how can IWC, Day and Ross, as well as many others, charge 4x the money as CW for watches with essentially the same engine?
2017 CW Forum "Darwin Award" winner.
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
Isn’t there 3-4 grades of finish/standard to any one single ETA movement? Think when Omega, Breitling etc use them they have one of the top options plus a bit of there own DNA finish on them. That said Steinhart do use the good ones I think
Current collection = Omega Seamaster 2225.80.00, Omega Speedmaster 'Moonphase' 3576.50.00, Breitling Aerospace Evo, Vintage Azur, Vintage Seiko Sprtsman, Grand Seiko SBGX059, Omega SMP NTTD 210.92.42.20.01.001, Casioak Milkyway, Casioak Tiffany Sky.
- Amor Vincit Omnia
- Moderator
- Posts: 33795
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
- CW-watches: 4
- Location: Norfolk, UK
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
Standard, élaboré, top and chronometer IIRC.
I’m not sufficiently knowledgeable to understand what the differences really are. I’m sure someone could elaborate (sic).
Steve
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer
Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
A few interesting responses so far. I know a lot of us criticise brands that charge a lot more than others for a watch which houses the same, or similar, movement. My use of IWC was not intended to open up the value proposition, but to show how the exact same watch from the same manufacturer can use two different movements and price them differently.
I take the point made about the Sellita based watch being newer, but whenever other brands increase prices, they do so across the board. Also when brands have swapped from ETA to Sellita previously, they often state they use either movement interchangeably. I know CW have drawn criticism here for not being able to tell you which movement a certain watch has. IWC openly stating that the same watch has a different movement is certainly not something everyone does.
So taking value and new vs old stock thoughts out of the equation, I suppose there isn’t an obvious reason for the Sellita movement being more expensive then the ETA.
I take the point made about the Sellita based watch being newer, but whenever other brands increase prices, they do so across the board. Also when brands have swapped from ETA to Sellita previously, they often state they use either movement interchangeably. I know CW have drawn criticism here for not being able to tell you which movement a certain watch has. IWC openly stating that the same watch has a different movement is certainly not something everyone does.
So taking value and new vs old stock thoughts out of the equation, I suppose there isn’t an obvious reason for the Sellita movement being more expensive then the ETA.
Iain’s Law: Any discussion on the Christopher Ward forum, irrespective of the thread title or subject matter, will eventually lead to someone mentioning the Bel Canto if the thread continues for long enough.
-
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm
- CW-watches: 5
- Location: Alberta, Canada (The Great White North, eh!)
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
How can you take new vs old stock out of the equation? It literally IS the equation. The 'obvious reason' for the Selitta being more expensive is because it is new stock, and IWC have had a price increase since the ETA version was received by the retailer. It's that simple. The retailer has kept the old stock at the old price, and the new stock is at the new price, as it should be.
2017 CW Forum "Darwin Award" winner.
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
You are right in that this will be the justification for the price increase if IWC were to state the reasons.Lavaine wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:25 pm How can you take new vs old stock out of the equation? It literally IS the equation. The 'obvious reason' for the Selitta being more expensive is because it is new stock, and IWC have had a price increase since the ETA version was received by the retailer. It's that simple. The retailer has kept the old stock at the old price, and the new stock is at the new price, as it should be.
However, and I’m sure we’ll get examples where this has happened, when does the old stock vs new stock price increase cover the exact same watch? Usually old stock vs new stock is because a range has been upgraded in some way OTHER then a movement swap, a facelift for example.
I’m interested to hear of other examples when this has happened as I’m interested to find out other instances where the exact same watch has shown a price difference just because of a change in movement. I’m talking about essentially the same movement though, not like when the black swapped Fromm ETA to in house as this was obviously a justified piece change.
A price increase based on exchange rates for example would affect both movements, not just one.
Iain’s Law: Any discussion on the Christopher Ward forum, irrespective of the thread title or subject matter, will eventually lead to someone mentioning the Bel Canto if the thread continues for long enough.
-
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm
- CW-watches: 5
- Location: Alberta, Canada (The Great White North, eh!)
Re: ETA vs Sellita cost difference?
iain,
I don't think the price change has anything to do with the change of movement. I feel they are separate things. IWC changed the movement from ETA to Selitta. They also had a price change, as did Omega and Rolex recently. Both those brands increased prices without changing their watches at all. This is what IWC did. It just so happens that they also changed the movement around the same time. Without knowing how long they have had the ETA in stock, there is no way to know how it relates to the price change. It's possible that the ETA has been in their stock for 2 years, and the change to Selitta occurred 18 months ago, and the price change 6 months ago. From the information you have presented, there is no proof that the price change directly correlates to, or was caused by, the change in movement.
IWC changed from ETA to Selitta.
IWC had a price change.
IWC did not necessarily have a price change BECAUSE they changed movement suppliers.
Also, IWC is under no obligation to state the reason for the price change. From a consumer perspective, the reason is because they wanted to. Buy it or don't. If you don't, someone else will.
I don't think the price change has anything to do with the change of movement. I feel they are separate things. IWC changed the movement from ETA to Selitta. They also had a price change, as did Omega and Rolex recently. Both those brands increased prices without changing their watches at all. This is what IWC did. It just so happens that they also changed the movement around the same time. Without knowing how long they have had the ETA in stock, there is no way to know how it relates to the price change. It's possible that the ETA has been in their stock for 2 years, and the change to Selitta occurred 18 months ago, and the price change 6 months ago. From the information you have presented, there is no proof that the price change directly correlates to, or was caused by, the change in movement.
IWC changed from ETA to Selitta.
IWC had a price change.
IWC did not necessarily have a price change BECAUSE they changed movement suppliers.
Also, IWC is under no obligation to state the reason for the price change. From a consumer perspective, the reason is because they wanted to. Buy it or don't. If you don't, someone else will.
2017 CW Forum "Darwin Award" winner.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post