Coronavirus

Here you can post stuff that is not related to Christopher Ward
User avatar
ken
Senior
Senior
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:47 pm
CW-watches: 2
Location: exeter, devon

Re: Coronavirus

Post by ken »

Morning.

Hope everyone is keeping well Image

Don't ever post on forum but pop in to read occasionally (have done for years). This forum is about the only 'social media' type thing I ever look at actually, I don't even use facebook/twitter etc.

But, I felt compelled to post this after seeing latter part of this thread. This, coupled with having far more time than normal!

I'm a sole director of a Ltd company. I too am entitled to no help unless I furlough myself and do nothing at all for the company (which isn't an option for most as being a sole director that is impossible without the business suffering even more).
Like a lot of people who go Ltd, it is not a move to save money. In fact, after all the extra accountancy and payroll fees I am possibly worse off over the course of a year. A lot of people trade as a company for the protection it offers.

I've heard lot's of comments lately along the lines of 'well, you've been dodging taxes for years' or 'you've not been paying into the system'.
Frankly, I'm not sure these people know what they are talking about.
Please look at the table below! People in my position pay less national insurance, but we pay plenty 'into the system' through corporation tax. Personally I also pay thousands in VAT each quarter as I deal with tens of thousands of materials over the course of a year (a good reason for Ltd protection!).

Personally, I have always 'played it straight'. No cash jobs, no getting customers to buy there own materials etc. Because of this I am VAT registered and personally/my company pay far more to the government than a majority of people.
I thought the conservative ethos was to encourage people to get out there and make things happen for themselves!?
By forgetting all the freelance/sole traders who trade as a Ltd company they are massively upsetting some of the hardest working people in this country who also are the type of people who have probably never needed to take out of the system.
Sole directors probably also have more monthly business expenses that have to be paid than your average employed person.

This is not a 'poor me' post. I genuinely believe that at a time like this anyone who has paid into the system should be helped. It is not fair a very small percentage are left out.
I'm also talking about the self employed who's profits are over £50000 (not me by the way). Why can a employed person earning £150000 be entitled to £2500 a month when the self employed earning £50001 is not?

Also the recently redundant and the people who are on 0 hour contracts. Government have the tax records of these people, look at the average they've paid into 'the system!' over the last 3 years and give them 80% of that for the duration. If this can't be done immediately then a pledge to get more money to them eventually to alleviate some of the stress.
The zero hour workers are also statistically far less likely to have any savings to fall back on.
NO ONE who has worked and paid their dues should be left out!

Personally I just find it frustrating when you hear of 'furloughed' employed people taking second jobs, and self employed people going to take grant and carry on working (presently allowed and no obligation to pay anything back!).
Some of these people are going to be better off. In fact, I've heard comments from a couple of people that they hope this goes on for aslong as possible as they are quite happy to be paid 80% and do nothing! Personally I cannot get my head around this attitude......

Anyway, rant over!

Thankyou everyone for your contributions to the forum. I always enjoy popping in for a read. Presently I don't own a CW but some of the latest offerings (C65 polar especially) are very tempting.
Maybe when the work starts coming in again I can get one Image

Best regards,

KeithImage

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Thegreyman
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 9783
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Thegreyman »

Morning Ken. In the interests of balance, a few points re your post. This is in no way to call you a "tax dodger" as I understand your points about how you decide to structure your business.

- VAT is paid by a company's customers to the company who then remit to HMRC net of offsetting VAT on their own costs, so not really a tax paid by the company in the same way PAYE/Corp Tax are.

- people on zero hours contracts can be furloughed based on their average earnings (the same month’s earnings from a previous year, the average monthly earnings for the 2019/20 tax year or an average of their monthly earnings since they started work — whichever is highest).

- your table compares the tax payable and COVID-19 compensation figures looking at a full year. The government compensation scheme is for a 3 month period only, yes it may be extended slightly but I don't believe it will be by more than another month or so. The country simply can't afford it. So it isn't really comparable. As others have commented, the tax benefits of being a limited company will also have accrued over potentially a number of years.

- I agree that there are some "skivers" in society who will be happy to be furloughed and get 80% salary for a few months. For many people though, if their employer has furloughed them, they are more than likely concerned that they will still have a job at the end of it.

One thing is for sure, for most people, particularly those in the private sector (whether employed, self employed or ltd company) there is uncertainty and worry over their future employment/income. For all our sakes, let's hope some level of normality ensues sooner rather than later.
Patrick

C60 FLE Scooter Blue, C65 Ombre COSC LE, C65 Dartmouth, W11 Amelia (wife)

Some others + a few on the way
User avatar
StrapMeister
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:29 pm
CW-watches: 3

Re: Coronavirus

Post by StrapMeister »

Hi Ken
Thank you for posting :thumbup:
Comments I see like "It's irrational to expect to take out if you don't put in" just annoys me and shows people's ignorance with regards our situations and how we operate. We put far more in than the majority!

What about those self-employed people, like my other half, who only recently setup their business and haven't put in their 1st years tax assessment - seems she's excluded as well :thumbdown:

I have seen that HMRC are being "considerate"...
They have deferred any VAT payments until March 2021;
They have deferred the Personal Tax due in July 2020 to January 2021;
The Corporation Tax bill, due 1st May, can be deferred for 3 months.
That's all well and good but if you have no income coming in, or support from the government, then you're having to use the money saved up for these bills to live on.
Which of course begs the question, if this continues for 3 months or more,...
How the hell are you going to pay these bills when they are due?
C60 FLE (Red JAG); C9 FLE; C65 Trident Bronze SH21 LE.
Freewheelers Emergency Voluntary Service (Blood Bikes) https://www.freewheelers.org.uk/
Bungle-ator
Guru
Guru
Posts: 304
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Bungle-ator »

ken wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:51 am
Morning.

Hope everyone is keeping well Image

Don't ever post on forum but pop in to read occasionally (have done for years). This forum is about the only 'social media' type thing I ever look at actually, I don't even use facebook/twitter etc.

But, I felt compelled to post this after seeing latter part of this thread. This, coupled with having far more time than normal!

I'm a sole director of a Ltd company. I too am entitled to no help unless I furlough myself and do nothing at all for the company (which isn't an option for most as being a sole director that is impossible without the business suffering even more).
Like a lot of people who go Ltd, it is not a move to save money. In fact, after all the extra accountancy and payroll fees I am possibly worse off over the course of a year. A lot of people trade as a company for the protection it offers.

I've heard lot's of comments lately along the lines of 'well, you've been dodging taxes for years' or 'you've not been paying into the system'.
Frankly, I'm not sure these people know what they are talking about.
Please look at the table below! People in my position pay less national insurance, but we pay plenty 'into the system' through corporation tax. Personally I also pay thousands in VAT each quarter as I deal with tens of thousands of materials over the course of a year (a good reason for Ltd protection!).

Personally, I have always 'played it straight'. No cash jobs, no getting customers to buy there own materials etc. Because of this I am VAT registered and personally/my company pay far more to the government than a majority of people.
I thought the conservative ethos was to encourage people to get out there and make things happen for themselves!?
By forgetting all the freelance/sole traders who trade as a Ltd company they are massively upsetting some of the hardest working people in this country who also are the type of people who have probably never needed to take out of the system.
Sole directors probably also have more monthly business expenses that have to be paid than your average employed person.

This is not a 'poor me' post. I genuinely believe that at a time like this anyone who has paid into the system should be helped. It is not fair a very small percentage are left out.
I'm also talking about the self employed who's profits are over £50000 (not me by the way). Why can a employed person earning £150000 be entitled to £2500 a month when the self employed earning £50001 is not?

Also the recently redundant and the people who are on 0 hour contracts. Government have the tax records of these people, look at the average they've paid into 'the system!' over the last 3 years and give them 80% of that for the duration. If this can't be done immediately then a pledge to get more money to them eventually to alleviate some of the stress.
The zero hour workers are also statistically far less likely to have any savings to fall back on.
NO ONE who has worked and paid their dues should be left out!

Personally I just find it frustrating when you hear of 'furloughed' employed people taking second jobs, and self employed people going to take grant and carry on working (presently allowed and no obligation to pay anything back!).
Some of these people are going to be better off. In fact, I've heard comments from a couple of people that they hope this goes on for aslong as possible as they are quite happy to be paid 80% and do nothing! Personally I cannot get my head around this attitude......

Anyway, rant over!

Thankyou everyone for your contributions to the forum. I always enjoy popping in for a read. Presently I don't own a CW but some of the latest offerings (C65 polar especially) are very tempting.
Maybe when the work starts coming in again I can get one Image

Best regards,

KeithImage

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
It's very easy to make those taking a dividend look like they're hard done by when you're using figures that align at the magic point. Double the dividend to give a still modest income at £47,500 and it won't look so balance against someone on PAYE who's deductions are £11,664.

Edit: the truth is that nobody takes a £12.5k salary with just a £17.5k dividend. It's pointless.
User avatar
ken
Senior
Senior
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:47 pm
CW-watches: 2
Location: exeter, devon

Re: Coronavirus

Post by ken »

Morning.

I agree with that. The table would look slightly different if we were talking larger amounts. Your view on it also all depends what side of the fence your sat on doesn't it Image

A lot of people think that taking dividends means you are saving a ton of money. This was more true in the past. These days for a majority of micro businesses (say profits between £30000 - 50000 this is not the case. I save approx £1000/1500 per year by paying myself through dividends. Once you add all the extra accountancy fees that come with being Ltd then the savings are small over a year (plus the extra hassle!).

Anyone can choose to start a company. Your turnover could be £10000 a year and you may still choose to be a company for various reasons that aren't always about saving money on tax.

For example, my brother in law installs cash register/till systems. Upfront he has to pay vast amounts of money for materials. He is very careful in regards to this, but he would be foolish if he was not set up as a company. Also in some fields people will only trade with a company.

Is trying to save on tax a bad thing anyway? Everyone sets themselves/their business to be as cost/tax efficient as possible. Everyone has that option.

A majority of people running small/micro Ltd businesses are not fat cats who have been playing the system for years. Most are just ordinary hardworking people who have all their personal bills to pay on top of all their operating costs.

Again, this is not a poor me post. I won't be claiming a grant even if eventually a am offered one. I am very lucky in that I am, and hopefully will continue to get some emergency work so have some money coming in. (This would not be possible if someone in my household was highly vulnerable). My partner is also getting paid so we are not desperate.

I understand we are more fortunate than many people in this country at this time. I'm just putting forward the view from where I am sat.

A am annoyed that a lot of very hardworking people have zero work and are left high and dry. For example people with young families where the bulk of household income was through that person. Not everyone who earns for example £45000 a year will have masses of savings.

No one who has been working and paying taxes in this country should be left out.
Newly self employed/higher earning self employed/recently redundant/0 hour contracted workers could all have their earnings over the last 3 years checked and be given a sum accordingly. This may take more time, but some light at the end of the tunnel would be a great help for many. The minority who feel they have not been helped as fairly as everyone else are bound to feel hard done by.

Thanks again to everyone on this Forum. I'll hopefully be able to post some 'lighter' stuff in the coming weeks (months??) with all my newfound time!

Enjoy your sunny sundays in the garden :)

Keith






Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

User avatar
nbg
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 9027
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:43 pm
CW-watches: 11
Location: UK

Re: Coronavirus

Post by nbg »

A few points from Martin Lewis that some may find useful.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/lates ... ent=1#hiya
Neil
Other watch forums of interest:
TZ-UK
User avatar
Thegreyman
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 9783
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Thegreyman »

I read that this morning. I always find his advice very useful. He did say he was looking into and would publish soon some advice for one man (woman) companies.
Patrick

C60 FLE Scooter Blue, C65 Ombre COSC LE, C65 Dartmouth, W11 Amelia (wife)

Some others + a few on the way
what-time-is-it
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Coronavirus

Post by what-time-is-it »

Twitter boss pledges $1bn towards coronavirus relief effort - that's a massive sum.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52209690
Current collection incl Alpina, Breitling, Bulova, Citizen, Eterna, Hamilton, Oris, Rado, Raymond Weil, Rolex, Seiko, Tag, Tudor & Victorinox.

Chris
User avatar
golfjunky
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 5010
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:32 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Coronavirus

Post by golfjunky »

nothing CW does is essential so why are they still operating?
Current collection = Omega Seamaster 2225.80.00, Omega Speedmaster 'Moonphase' 3576.50.00, Seiko SRPB43J1, C60 Trident, Casio G Shock 2327, Garmin Vivoactive
what-time-is-it
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Coronavirus

Post by what-time-is-it »

golfjunky wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:16 pm
nothing CW does is essential so why are they still operating?
Official UK guidance has asked for some non-essential shops and venues to shut and hasn't asked for all businesses to close.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... s-covid-19
Current collection incl Alpina, Breitling, Bulova, Citizen, Eterna, Hamilton, Oris, Rado, Raymond Weil, Rolex, Seiko, Tag, Tudor & Victorinox.

Chris
iain
Senior Expert
Senior Expert
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:13 pm
CW-watches: 2

Re: Coronavirus

Post by iain »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52236387

I’ve posted these updates before from the BBC website which are written by a Dr in the NHS trust where I work. This one contains details on the research and drug trials taking place at a national level and may be of interest if anyone has friends or family who may be taking part.
what-time-is-it
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Coronavirus

Post by what-time-is-it »

Was looking at a new Seiko, but decided to back this gent instead after watching an interview on Sky earlier.
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... kforthenhs
Current collection incl Alpina, Breitling, Bulova, Citizen, Eterna, Hamilton, Oris, Rado, Raymond Weil, Rolex, Seiko, Tag, Tudor & Victorinox.

Chris
User avatar
Thegreyman
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 9783
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Thegreyman »

what-time-is-it wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:50 pm
Was looking at a new Seiko, but decided to back this gent instead after watching an interview on Sky earlier.
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ ... kforthenhs
Agreed, he is an inspiration :clap:
Patrick

C60 FLE Scooter Blue, C65 Ombre COSC LE, C65 Dartmouth, W11 Amelia (wife)

Some others + a few on the way
User avatar
Amor Vincit Omnia
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 23009
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Good call, Chris! :thumbup:
Steve
The half minute which we daily devote to the winding-up of our watches is an exertion of labour almost insensible; yet, by the aid of a few wheels, its effect is spread over the whole twenty-four hours.
Charles Babbage


@Avo238
what-time-is-it
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Coronavirus

Post by what-time-is-it »

I think the nation was/is looking for a glimmer of hope or just something positive - hence why he set out to make £1k and currently the total is at £13,516,366.70 :clap:
Current collection incl Alpina, Breitling, Bulova, Citizen, Eterna, Hamilton, Oris, Rado, Raymond Weil, Rolex, Seiko, Tag, Tudor & Victorinox.

Chris
Post Reply