Would you buy a plug in electric car?

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what-time-is-it
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by what-time-is-it » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:59 pm

golfjunky wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:04 am
i call BS on 99% of the EV scare stories
To be fair though, from what you've previously stated you haven't had a pure EV and have always had the back up of a petrol engine (PHEV). The BS you mention is most likely from EV owners who don't have a petrol or diesel backup to turn to when they've run out of juice. You should run around in your mini with no petrol in the tank in winter or when faced with a road closure and see how great the network is when you only have battery power to turn to.
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by atnits » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:05 pm

I had one of these electric cars in the '80s. I'd happily have one again.

Image

Batteries didn't last very long, though.

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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by GTC854 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:54 pm

I have run a plug in hybrid VW Golf for over a year. I am a high mileage driver and consequently have covered 36000 miles. Many of my single journeys are in excess of 420 miles. The car is brilliant. Around town I do not use the petrol engine at all. I am fortunate that I can use a charger at work. Over weekends I easily manage 200mpg on 100 mile round trips. But.. would I buy a fully electric car? I am considering it. The new VW due next year comes with a range of batteries - the largest with a claimed 300 mile range in the new WLTP cycle. After all I have to stop on my 420 mile drives.
Speed and cold does reduce battery range but not nearly as much as some have claimed.
The biggest issue is charging. To effectively run an electric vehicle you have to think of charging in the same way you think about charging your phone. You have to change mindset from going out of your way to stop for fuel and get into the habit of plugging in when you are not using the car. That means you need home charging. Top up every night and the only time you would suffer range anxiety is when you were on a long distance run but I have noticed new charging points are springing up every day. However I would only recommend pure EV only if you could charge at home
Sadly there are many many misconceptions and heresay about EVs. I consider myself a ‘Petrol Head’ but the more I find out about EVs and the more I experience them the less fearful I am. If anyone is truly interested in finding out more I too would recommend you google fully charged. The channel is probably over the top and too biased against fossil fuels but it is enlightening.
Bottom line is the govt is going to push us all in a particular direction. As more EVs hit the streets I can imagine tax will rise to offset the drop from fossil fuel revenue. I would guess that fuel tax on petrol/diesel will also rise at a higher rate to encourage us to go electric. Interestingly almost 50% of new car sales in Norway are electric and this is down to govt encouragement. However a huge proportion of Norway’s electricity comes from renewable sources and the policy makes a lot of sense

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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by PaulJS » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:59 pm

It seems to me that PHEV vehicles serve two purposes:

1. If you largely do round trips of <25 miles and have a light foot they can provide almost fuel cost free driving.

2. If you need to have a company car they can be a tax efficient solution.

If, like me, you often do several hundred miles in a day you are paying for a load of technology that is irrelevant after the first 30 minutes of driving and which then presents you with a huge weight penalty to lug around.

With the current technology any form of EV, be it hybrid or otherwise, carries too many compromises to be a sensible purchase for the vast majority of users who need a vehicle they can jump in whenever they like / need and go wherever they like / need.

And, while using the term snakeoil may be a touch harsh, there is certainly a significant amount of hype, smoke and mirrors surrounding what can actually be achieved in the real world when you have a car full of people and luggage, and you have to run lights, wipers, demist and heating flat out because it's bloody cold and raining!

I certainly would not wishing to be setting off at 4 am for Heathrow to catch a flight to the Carribean knowing it is at the further ends of my range capability!!

In my view, as it stands, they are horses for very rare courses.

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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by golfjunky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:06 pm

PaulJS wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:59 pm
In my view, as it stands, they are horses for very rare courses.
its the negativity in that last statement that gets me. i honestly think as mentioned it is just a change of mindset that is needed. once you in, up and running it really is no different to me.
taken from Google so not sure how correct but
"The average length of a commuter trip by car/van varies little across English regions and Wales at about ten miles. It is highest in the South East (11.2 miles) and lowest in London (8.6 miles)." the source was the RAC foundation
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Galton321 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:48 pm

Golfjunky is probably right. If all you journeys start and finish from home and are short commutes I cannot see any problems with an EV. My problem is that I have to make dashes to York from the South of England at short notice because of an elderly parent. This often takes 5 hours plus without a couple of 1 hour charging visits. And no charging at end of journey. Also because of health issues often have to make hospital dashes in the middle of the night. Personal transport needs to ready to go anytime. Yes people and society needs a change of mindset towards personal transport. EV cars for urban commutes. Cheaper fares on extended rail network for longer journeys. Inexpensive EV car hire or taxis (driverless?) When you arrive at station. 32 million private EV cars all needing charging is probably not going to work.

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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by golfjunky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:57 pm

Imho having a PHEV is super easy and prob easier better than a traditional fuelled car. I just plug it in every night on my drive with a normal 3 pin plug. It means I visit a fuel station very rarely and when I do a big journey I just fill up with petrol like normal. Every morning I have 20-25 miles of range for £1
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Craig64 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:03 pm

golfjunky wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:57 pm
Imho having a PHEV is super easy and prob easier better than a traditional fuelled car. I just plug it in every night on my drive with a normal 3 pin plug. It means I visit a fuel station very rarely and when I do a big journey I just fill up with petrol like normal. Every morning I have 20-25 miles of range for £1
The original topic question specifically asked if you would consider buying a plug in electric car (not hybrid). For those that have purchased a PHEV, would you consider moving towards electric power only?
Would you ditch the hybrid power system and go all electric?
Regards
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by golfjunky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:06 pm

Yes. Would love a Tesla
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Craig64 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:15 pm

golfjunky wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:06 pm
Yes. Would love a Tesla
Thank you for that speedy reply :D
Even though I’ve already said that the pure/all electric vehicles are not something I would move to in the foreseeable future, a hybrid is in my mind a different concept all together, one that I might give more consideration to in future.
Regards
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Lavaine » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:18 pm

H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:49 am
Lavaine wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am
but with 224hp combined, I imagine it's a decently spirited drive when you want it to be.
This is the delusion with electric cars. Use the power for any length of time and the battery will give maybe 5% of the quoted range, not to mention probably overheating.

I see Teslas on the autobahn once in a while. They're the ones in the inside lane doing 50mph with the trucks while everybody else hammers by.

One of my students (he is an engineer) has a neighbour with a Tesla. Midwinter he can't make it from Bernau to Munich, a distance of 60 miles.

You are being sold snake oil.
And this is the problem with modern technology: People don't understand what they are talking about, but pretend they are experts. The Mini PHEV isn't an electric car. It's a plug-in hybrid. It has plenty of range in all weather. As for the supposed 5% of quoted range, and your students friend not being able to drive 60 miles, one is pure BS, and the other is lying or drives like a complete ass all the time. In a Northern Canadian WInter, owner experience is a loss of ~30-40% of range on the coldest days. This would give a short range Tesla a range of about 200km at normal highway speeds of 100-110 km/h. On the track owners have found a Model S good for about an hour of all-out track time, probably somewhere in the range of 100-150km. On the highway at full throttle, the car should be capable for in excess of 150km (although due to inadequate cooling, top speed will reduce at some point from 155 mph to around 130-140mph.

I agree that range needs to be improved for winter climates in particular, but everything you said above is pure garbage and not in any way related to the part of my post that you quoted.
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by chb » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:45 pm

We are in a transition period. Those who rubbish electric cars have a valid point on some aspects, but the long term direction and what is right is towards electrification of transport in general. (Said from a UK/EU perspective... arguably harder in USA/Aus where trips can be crazy long!).

I have run a BMW i3 for the last three years. While technically mine is a hybrid (it has a 2cyl 600cc engine that acts as a generator if needed), it is really pure EV as it has an 80 mile range which covers 90% of driving. We also have a D3 Volvo V40 cos yeah we need something with a 500mile range on occaision.

Electric cars are where mobile phones were in 1995 (evolving rapidly) or where the internet was in 1999 (dotcom bubble, dial up modems and more companies that you can wave a stick at). Both the internet and mobile phones were a bit rubbish back then, but the direction of travel was clear (ok touch screens were a bit of a surprise to the market!). EV's are in that phase now.

So let me address a few bits:
They are MUCH nicer to drive than most conventional cars. My i3 will beat a BMW M3 off the traffic lights if that's your thing, and easily do motorway speeds. Effortless power and the power is there from 0mph whereas normal engines need to get revs and lose acceleration due to gear changes.
The Grid side of things has been covered by the UK national grid:
https://www.nationalgrid.com/group/case ... future-evs

In short there is enough energy.

What most folk are not doing here is joining up the dots. Think of the transformation that cameraphone, 4G, Internet, GPS has enabled in the way we navigate and do our business.

The combination of self driving cars, Smart grids (that enable push and pull of energy as needed), EV, 5G and things like LoRA which enables internet of things to talk to each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa

Basically in 20-30 years many of us will be treating cars like Airbnb and not bother owning one. Those of who do own one (lots cos we like to!) will have the option of hiring it out while we are at work (self driving so no risk and customers rated like on Ebay) so that it earns while we work. It will be permanently connected to the internet and to other cars and equipment in proximity. It will charge at the most effective time and always have energy when you need it as it will know your diary. Sound like science fiction? well think what you can do with your phone in 2019 that would have seemed equally far fetched in 2007.

Battery tech is a hurdle. Current EV's even on UK mixed grid are less polluting per mile than even a 1.0 litre fiesta, never mind a USA V8!

The future is coming. Right now it is right for many. 5 years ago it was right for geeks. In another 5-10 years we won't be having this debate as it will be mainstream.

As an aside I had a GPS in 1998, A PC with highspeed internet in 2000 and an internet connected phone in 2001, so a bit of an early adopter geek.
Early adopters can see where things are headed and I would say don't let current limitations rubbish the future.
Battery tech has already doubled capacity in 5 years. More to come I hope!

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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by chb » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:57 pm

OH to answer the original question. I MIGHT buy a full EV (ie no generator back up) now as ranges have doubled in past 5 years. When I bought mine in 2016 (a 2014 model BMW i3 REX) the range and charge infrastructure was simply not good enough. It still isn't good enough for many, but with at home charging, 250 mile range and the ability to rapid charge to 80% in 30 mins I think a full EV in 2020 or 2021 could be right for me. Like I said, its a fast moving transition period. Comparing a current EV to one from 2012 is like comparing a Nokia Communicator to an iPhone 5.

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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Thegreyman » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:11 pm

golfjunky wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:57 pm
Imho having a PHEV is super easy and prob easier better than a traditional fuelled car. I just plug it in every night on my drive with a normal 3 pin plug. It means I visit a fuel station very rarely and when I do a big journey I just fill up with petrol like normal. Every morning I have 20-25 miles of range for £1
I don't know about your Mini but the PHEV BMW's have a much smaller fuel tank e.g. BMW 330e 40 litres vs standard 3 series 59 litres. So the range of some PHEV's is compromised on longer journeys, more trips to the petrol station.
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Re: Would you buy a plug in electric car?

Post by Thegreyman » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:16 pm

chb wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:45 pm
We are in a transition period.

The future is coming. Right now it is right for many. 5 years ago it was right for geeks. In another 5-10 years we won't be having this debate as it will be mainstream.
I think we are all pretty much agreed that EV's are where we are ultimately heading, after all the car companies and goverments are driving the direction of travel (bad pun I know).

Where there seems to be a bit of a difference of opinion though is whether that is now, next year, 5 years, whatever. I'm in the camp that there are still a number of barriers to mass adoption. None of us have a crystal ball though so time will ultimately tell.
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