Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

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scooter
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Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by scooter »

The continued denigration of our Forum on another CW Page is really annoying, but there does seem to be something wrong here.

I have little time for those there who are whinging about Sales Corner access, problems with posting images, imagined Forum Cliques and ex Forum Flouncers generally sticking the knife in, but....

I could name a lot of our Forum Favourites who have recently either given up visiting all together or stopped/slowed down their posting.

To me the dynamics of the Forum have been changing in the recent past and there has been an accepted growing degree of sterility so akin to other Forums that I have given up on in the past.

I don't want the Forum to fail having invested far too much time and effort into it over the past 7+ years but something, I don't know what, needs to change and probably pretty soon.

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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by hughesyn »

I assume you are referring to Facebook?

The difference might be that forum members tend to be longer time owners of CW.
The shift in direction of CW designs gets a more criticism here as a result.

I get the impression that the FB page has more newer owners, so they are more positive in general about the brand.

As long as the forum is a useful resource for those new to the brand, it will continue to attract new members.

Personally I come back to the forum because of more than CW. The information and discussion on other brands is better than any other forum I have looked at.

It's probably not good form to discuss other forums. However, the reason I bother with this place is because, in my opinion, it is the best general watch discussion forum. Plus I have an interest in CW, even if the newer models disappoint.
The only other forum I bother with is WUS, which is great for specific interests, but too noisy and daft for general discussion.
I wouldn't go near the other popular UK forum. Too much criticism and I'm not a big fan of the company and individual with which it is associated.
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by jtc »

Agree with the above. 10% of my interest in this forum is CW(L). The other 90% is other brands, SOTC, general chatter and the fun.

I haven't looked at CW stuff on Facebook but I can imagine there's a lot of people who'll adjust their stance and perhaps just stop posting in the groups eventually, because there's nothing else to say.
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by what-time-is-it »

I don't use Facebook so have no experience of the FB group, but I'm sure the appeal is easy upload of photos and probably a more liberal approach to free speech/less mod involvement.

I can and regularly do upload photos on here, but others struggle. In this world of instant gratification and ease of use, not being able to upload on this forum doesn't help the cause. We often see people struggle with attaching pics on here - how many just don't post anything because they can't get pictures to show?

All these little things can put people off and in the past you had to accept it if you wanted to stick around and discuss CW, but now the forum has competition and that competition seems to have a good following. It seems the momentum is with the Facebook group and not here.
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by golfjunky »

To me the lack of responses to this thread speaks volumes compared to how it would of been a year ago. It’s just dead on here atm. As mentioned not many long term members like the new stuff so it’s mainly about the other threads and general chat ( which is weird for a brand forum) I’m bored of people moaning about the 30 post rule. I know it’s not good to just Criticise but I don’t know a quick fix
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by nbg »

Well I think that if we are true to ourselves, we cannot be false to anyone. :)

I don’t think that this is about people using the CW enthusiasts group on Facebook in preference to here and perhaps the less said the better about a couple of those from the other place who are having a dig at the CW forum.

It is evident that many regulars, whose posts I enjoy, have either stopped or significantly reduced their level of posts.

I guess it’s up to those that remain to try and ensure that there is a suitable level of humorous banter, combined with calling things out where appropriate - whilst trying to ensure that any edgy posts don’t subsequently “disappear”.

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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by PaulJS »

I agree with all the comments / opinions so far expressed regarding the way things are going here.

I also fall into the camp of struggling to feel the love for the current CW offerings and so 95% of my interest is in the 'other brand' content.

I am sure that the somewhat cumbersome technology is partly to blame, but I also think that there needs to be a adjustment to the overall way the forum is regulated and the perceived attitude towards members - especially new ones.

I am now putting on my flak jacket as I prepare to type the next bit!!!!

Since I have joined I perceive a slow but steady drift towards an increasingly patronising 'we know best' approach from some of those that run this place and some of the language used towards members feels like a teacher speaking to a naughty school boy (that BTW is purely a simile and definitely not targeted at anyone who actually is a school teacher!).

Some of the actions taken in regard to deleting posts also feels a touch Big Brother and I think it is stifling robust exchanges.

Despite being an initially warm and welcoming place it does, at times, feel like an 'old boys club' where you are either 'in' or you are not. I don't think this is deliberate by anyone, I just think it is a product of there being a small core of long standing members who know each other on a personal level and not just through the ether.

We are all old enough, and some of us are ugly enough not to require arbitrary sanitisation of content or exchanges and, while no one wants things to degenerate into flinging abuse about, a bit of healthy vehement disagreement is what juices things up a bit and gets people motivated to take part.

The best way I can illustrate my point is this:

I think that exchanges on here should be a bit like sitting in the pub with your mates chatting about this and that. The subject matter might meander about a bit and occasionally someone may say something a bit near the mark but what no one wants is to have the barman lean over the bar and say:

'sorry lads, but I couldn't help noticing that you were all having a bit of a moan about life in general and one of you tried to turn it into a conversation - you know that's against rules so I am going to have to delete that last comment!'

Now it might be 'the rules' and yes I can see some logic to it but really? Isn't life just too short and full of unavoidable limitations without thinking up extra ones just for the fun of it?

Now don't get me wrong, I hate FB with a passion, but it is not hard to see how the somewhat cumbersome and restrictive nature of the forum is too much of a phaff for the FB generation to bother with.

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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by Tyke »

I suspect a lot of long term posters have moved on from buying CW's but still feel a certain affinity with the brand, certainly this is my own position. Dislike of models or aspects of models is a possibility, saturation of a fairly small audience is another option. The growth or maintenance of non-CW material compensates for the expected narrow nature of a single brand forum which seems to be keeping us ticking over between new releases and sales spikes.

Hopefully I'm beating my watch addiction by going back to a sole watch and disposing of the rest but I'll still keep dropping in to see what other inmates are up to, even if I won't be interested in what CW are doing.

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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by Mikkei4 »

I’ve been a member of the Forum only for about a year so don’t feel that I have sufficiently lengthy experience to compare with any great authority how the Forum used to be and whether it has changed or not. During the past year I’ve always seen posts about difficulties adding images, limited initial access to the SC etc etc and have largely ignored them considering them to be from new members that haven’t yet “done their homework” or people that want instant gratification due to impatience.

Indeed I was 1 of those that refused to post photos as the Imgur/CWF instructions seemed fussy and not user-friendly, until I printed off the instructions, sat down and went through the process methodically and found they weren’t and it’s no longer an issue.

I don’t have Facebook and never will so if the derogatory comments were in there then I haven’t seen them, so won’t comment. If there were any within the CWF then I’ve missed them or considered them to be of insufficient interest.

However, if somebody like Scooter thinks there’s problems then I’m ready to listen, but IMO it will require the specific nature of what people believe to be the “problems” to be aired and listed to enable discussion and suggestions to remedy them.

So far I think we have, in no particular order -
Lack or reduced interest in CW current ranges
Saturation of a small audience
Technology (incl. photo posting)
30 posts for access to SC
Level of moderation
Perceived cliques/clubs within the Forum
Reduced numbers of regular Forum members and posts
Facebook format

Any others to add to make a full list for discussion?

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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by FloridaPhil »

I am a member of both groups and like both groups but they have very different dynamics, and should, since they have different purposes.

This forum is more in-depth, the three-course meal if you like, whilst the FB page is a quick grab-and-go sandwich. There is room for both.

Interestingly, the person who started the FB thread to which Scooter refers is a member who has taken a LOT of flak here (not undeservedly it might be argued) so it's perhaps not surprising that he finds the FB group more friendly. And like it or not, recognize it or not, there most definitely is a clique here, just as there is in any group with long time members. That's not a criticism; it's just a fact of life, but it can be off-putting. We have all been witness to slapdowns of newer members.

However, I have mostly found this group to be very friendly and informative, willing to share their knowledge with in-depth and thoughtful posts on all manner of subjects. Unfortunately, I simply do not have the time to visit as often as I used to, nor to contribute in the way I would often like, so the FB group does provide the fast hit of (limited) involvement and on I go about my day. I get the feeling that many of the high post count forum members are older in life, in our 50's+ so perhaps have more time to spend here than the younger group who tend to populate FB and therefore prefer the quick hit it offers.

Also, I have been uninspired by recent CW offerings. The rebrand basically ruined most of the range for me and I find myself now drawn to the older pieces (gen2 being my favorite) but increasingly to other brands. So, rather than rain on other's parade, I prefer to remain silent and, increasingly, look elsewhere. I do find the enthusiasm on the FB page refreshing though so tend to look there first. My phone makes that really easy too and photo upload is a piece of cake compared to the forum. Also, FB sends notifications of new posts in threads to which you have contributed so there is a constant drip, drip, drip of a system designed to engage you. Not surprising then that FB gets the attention for which it screams. I mute it!

As I said, in my mind there is room for both but in general, I agree with Scooter, it would appear that the forum is slipping in importance. So did the horse and trap.
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by Paul Drawmer »

The f/b group organised a successful trip to CW Towers recently, and they have another planned.
There's always time for one more.

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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by hughesyn »

golfjunky wrote:To me the lack of responses to this thread speaks volumes compared to how it would of been a year ago
The thread title is rather cryptic :D
Paul Drawmer wrote:The f/b group organised a successful trip to CW Towers recently, and they have another planned.
I chuckled when I saw the CW Instagram post 'Christopher Ward Enthusiasts' visit CW towers.

My thoughts went along the lines of 'I don't remember seeing that on the forum. Oh, it must be the FB bunch.
They aren't real CW enthusiasts, otherwise they would be on the forum not messing around on FB'.
FloridaPhil wrote: I get the feeling that many of the high post count forum members are older in life, in our 50's+ so perhaps have more time to spend here than the younger group who tend to populate FB and therefore prefer the quick hit it offers.
As a 40 year old, I think of FB as something that older people use. It's more popular with the 50+ crowd in my experience.
I don't think under 40s really use FB.
My kids would probably call it 'butters' or some such nonsense.
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by FloridaPhil »

hughesyn wrote:
FloridaPhil wrote: I get the feeling that many of the high post count forum members are older in life, in our 50's+ so perhaps have more time to spend here than the younger group who tend to populate FB and therefore prefer the quick hit it offers.
As a 40 year old, I think of FB as something that older people use. It's more popular with the 50+ crowd in my experience.
I don't think under 40s really use FB.
My kids would probably call it 'butters' or some such nonsense.
Your kids are not the target audience. It's the 30 somethings - and the FB group is full of them. And 40, 50, 60 age groups too...
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by srs1286 »

FloridaPhil wrote: I do find the enthusiasm on the FB page refreshing though so tend to look there first. My phone makes that really easy too and photo upload is a piece of cake compared to the forum. Also, FB sends notifications of new posts in threads to which you have contributed so there is a constant drip, drip, drip of a system designed to engage you. Not surprising then that FB gets the attention for which it screams. I mute it!
This is the reason my attention has diverted. I very much dislike FB but reactivated my account, deleted my friends along with all my personal information just to interact with that group. The reason I keep going back is because of the push notifications for responses to my posts. This makes it easy to keep the interaction going whereas on the forum you must remember what and where you posted to see if anyone responded and reply. If nobody responds when you've thought to look then the interaction just fades away to nonexistance. When a response isn't justified, someone can simply like your comment or photo on facebook so you know they received it. Yes it is dumb and almost needy but it's nice to get a small amount of gratification knowing people like your wristcandy of the day.

On top of all that, I've noticed a lot of individuals here are on the FB page as well. No reason to post to the same people twice.
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Re: Something Is Wrong In The State Of Denmark

Post by missF »

i'd say there's only a problem if you want things to stay the same - and things certainly haven't stayed the same around here with the new rebrand. this brought a level of negativity i'd never come across since i joined the forum - and not just people expressing an opinion and moving on, but a constant - from some quarters - returning and returning to denegrating the whole company. the rhetoric was not simply that people held an opinion on the rebrand, but that people knew better how to run a watch company. for me it got really repetitively negative, very arrogant, non-inclusive to anyone who didn't share that particular narrative, and frankly boring. i very rarely hang out in the general discussion section any more.

i'm still here because it's a place i know and feel comfortable hanging out. i'd rather have the longer discussions here than the more bit-sized FB stuff, but quite frankly if the FB site have found a more positive way to talk about watches and CW as a company, then more power to their elbow. we get the forum we create and deserve. if you want positive constructive conversation then post something positive and constructive.
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