SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by JasperCat »

MiniMpi wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:49 pm
Outstanding result :clap:
Must say I'm not sure if I've checked my COSC serial numbers matched the various watches.....something to do on a quiet day perhaps in the future.
Indeed.. thanks to CW customer support :D

My other COSC autos (Cranwell, C65 SH21 LE and Elite GMT) all run just a few secs fast p/d, and very close to their shown COSC mean variation. My C8 PR runs consistently at -2 secs p/d, which is well within spec and for an occasional use hand wind watch, that's fantastic and I suspect it's actual COSC will reflect that... so they do give some indication. However, as as been pointed out, it really only means the movement is capable of running within spec and did during that test.

In a way it doesn't really matter, and with closed back watches how would we ever know normally that the movement and cert match (short of removing the case back), but it would be important (price wise) if I ever came to sell the watch on :thumbup:
C60 Elite GMT 1000, C65 SH21 LE, C65 Cranwell, C8 Power Reserve, C65 Super Compressor,
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by ttix67 »

Not sure if anyone here is able to help - I purchased a secondhand C65 SH21 on eBay and the original buyer asserts that he never received the original COSC certificate. Both us contacted CW, who stated they cannot provide the certificate. This seems a stark contrast to the OP's scenario and so I am just a bit frustrated at this whole experience. I even cited the duplicate language (which CW acknowledged), yet stated this could only apply to "specific situations." This was just so vague and while it is just a piece of paper in the end, it does bother me not resolving this.

I asked if a COSC can be later issued upon servicing, but upon reading prior posts, this seems unlikely. Not sure if anyone else has suggestions.
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by ajax87 »

ttix67 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:47 pm
Not sure if anyone here is able to help - I purchased a secondhand C65 SH21 on eBay and the original buyer asserts that he never received the original COSC certificate. Both us contacted CW, who stated they cannot provide the certificate. This seems a stark contrast to the OP's scenario and so I am just a bit frustrated at this whole experience. I even cited the duplicate language (which CW acknowledged), yet stated this could only apply to "specific situations." This was just so vague and while it is just a piece of paper in the end, it does bother me not resolving this.

I asked if a COSC can be later issued upon servicing, but upon reading prior posts, this seems unlikely. Not sure if anyone else has suggestions.
I can’t speak to CWs stance, though the difference may be that the OP purchased the watch directly from CW and the cert provided was incorrect, whereas you bought secondhand and the original owner likely tossed it, no matter what they’re saying now. The OPs situation is a verifiable CW customer service failure while yours is not. Sorry for your situation, but I don’t think I can fault CW’s response for you.

If you want the cert, it sounds like the COSC can reissue the original cert, likely at a cost. You can check out https://www.cosc.swiss/en if you want to check on that. Sounds like you’d just need the movement serial number. I’d be curious to verify if they indeed will and what it would cost.
Alex
C5 Malvern Aviator Mk1|C60 Sapphire|C60 Abyss|C65 Super Compressor|C60 Trident mk3 GMT|C1 Moonglow|Omega Seamaster DeVille|Speedmaster mk40 Cosmos|Hamilton Intramatic chrono|Shinola Runwell auto|Tissot|Timex
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by ttix67 »

ajax87 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:02 pm
ttix67 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:47 pm
Not sure if anyone here is able to help - I purchased a secondhand C65 SH21 on eBay and the original buyer asserts that he never received the original COSC certificate. Both us contacted CW, who stated they cannot provide the certificate. This seems a stark contrast to the OP's scenario and so I am just a bit frustrated at this whole experience. I even cited the duplicate language (which CW acknowledged), yet stated this could only apply to "specific situations." This was just so vague and while it is just a piece of paper in the end, it does bother me not resolving this.

I asked if a COSC can be later issued upon servicing, but upon reading prior posts, this seems unlikely. Not sure if anyone else has suggestions.
I can’t speak to CWs stance, though the difference may be that the OP purchased the watch directly from CW and the cert provided was incorrect, whereas you bought secondhand and the original owner likely tossed it, no matter what they’re saying now. The OPs situation is a verifiable CW customer service failure while yours is not. Sorry for your situation, but I don’t think I can fault CW’s response for you.

If you want the cert, it sounds like the COSC can reissue the original cert, likely at a cost. You can check out https://www.cosc.swiss/en if you want to check on that. Sounds like you’d just need the movement serial number. I’d be curious to verify if they indeed will and what it would cost.
Oh I completely agree with you. However, I am in full and complete communication with the original buyer (with his name, order number, etc.) and even had him communicate with CW. I get their response with me, fine - but if their original buyer is asserting that he never received it, then it seems a bit troubling that they refused to acknowledge the situation.

I also concede what you're saying in that the original owner may be lying and may have tossed it. However, if that was the case, then the duplicate language in the COSC FAQ should kick in, but CW does not even seem to want to pursue that route either, even if the cost is borne to the customer. That's why I'm frustrated that there is no available solution here and the vagueness of the response I received. I'm all for that option, but even that seems foreclosed to me at this point. My understanding was that CW had to make the request, but please correct me if I'm wrong (I've also read stories about the difficulties of communicating with COSC as a consumer.)

Also unsure of how I would get the serial number of the movement as it's a closed caseback. Is it printed on the 60/60 warranty card? Otherwise, I have no way of obtaining the movement ID #
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by JasperCat »

I can only describe my particular circumstance, in that I purchased the C8 PR in the sale in early January and once discovering the mismatch, contacted CW customer support, who have been tremendously helpful. Perhaps the fact that I was in position of an incorrect rather than missing certificate helped... not sure :?

I understand these certificates have a cost, but that may be part of the certification cost anyway. CW were prepared to offer me a discount if the certificate couldn't be located and duplicate not possible. As it happens, they contacted Switzerland and obtained a duplicate, presumably at some cost to themselves.

Perhaps you could ask if the will provide a duplicate for a small charge ?

As timing would have it, the certificate has in fact arrived today and is indeed marked "Duplicate" but other than that, is a full COSC certificate and the serial matches my SH21 movement... I can only applaud CW for that :clap:

Screenshot 2021-02-16 at 18.12.15.png
Screenshot 2021-02-16 at 18.10.54.png
C60 Elite GMT 1000, C65 SH21 LE, C65 Cranwell, C8 Power Reserve, C65 Super Compressor,
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by ajax87 »

You make some good points. As you can tell from my response, I was skeptical of the original owner claiming that he never got it only now after he’s had the watch for a while and is selling it. Sounds like CW is skeptical as well, however fair or unfair that may be. The movement number is apparently nowhere except on the movement, and you’d void the warranty to access it. Maybe CW could just provide the movement #, if they even keep track of those.

Have you asked them to clarify the “specific situations”? Maybe if you keep badgering they’ll acquiesce.
Alex
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

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ttix67 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:27 pm
Also unsure of how I would get the serial number of the movement as it's a closed caseback. Is it printed on the 60/60 warranty card? Otherwise, I have no way of obtaining the movement ID #
I have no idea if the movement number on my three other COSC watches matches that on the certicate due to being unable to read the serial (close case back for two and not visible on the third), so unfortunately you would likely have to remove the caseback unless CW has a record. I haven't seen it recorder anywhere else :(
C60 Elite GMT 1000, C65 SH21 LE, C65 Cranwell, C8 Power Reserve, C65 Super Compressor,
C65 Blue Bronze Prototype, C65 Black Gold LE, C65 316L LE, C60 Trident Pro 600 MkII, C5 MMXV FLE

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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by ttix67 »

Thanks all. I will try asking to see if they can issue a duplicate. The original owner got back to me and told me that CW basically told him he is out of luck because he did not raise the issue in time (he purchased the watch 6 months ago.) In the end, he provided a small discount, so that issue is fine, but I am just a bit annoyed that CW is just saying no to any issuance of a certificate, even if it is a duplicate.

I am happy for you though, JasperCat. I've been following the topics of the forum and I also managed to get a C8 PR (directly from CW) and my pre-owned watch was also a C65 SH21 LE, albeit from eBay :D
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

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ttix67 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:57 pm
Thanks all. I will try asking to see if they can issue a duplicate. The original owner got back to me and told me that CW basically told him he is out of luck because he did not raise the issue in time (he purchased the watch 6 months ago.) In the end, he provided a small discount, so that issue is fine, but I am just a bit annoyed that CW is just saying no to any issuance of a certificate, even if it is a duplicate.

I am happy for you though, JasperCat. I've been following the topics of the forum and I also managed to get a C8 PR (directly from CW) and my pre-owned watch was also a C65 SH21 LE, albeit from eBay :D
Two very stunning watches! As someone recently said to me, they can soothe any sore feelings you might have about the issue. And very kind of the seller to contact CW on your behalf like he did and also to provide a small discount.

It is still a COSC watch, and the warranty runs 60 months so you can still probably have CW service/regulate it if it’s running outside of -4/+6spd.
Alex
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by Kip »

ttix67 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:47 pm
.... I am in full and complete communication with the original buyer (with his name, order number, etc.) and even had him communicate with CW. I get their response with me, fine - but if their original buyer is asserting that he never received it, then it seems a bit troubling that they refused to acknowledge the situation.

I also concede what you're saying in that the original owner may be lying and may have tossed it. However, if that was the case, then the duplicate language in the COSC FAQ should kick in, but CW does not even seem to want to pursue that route either, even if the cost is borne to the customer. That's why I'm frustrated that there is no available solution here and the vagueness of the response I received. I'm all for that option, but even that seems foreclosed to me at this point. My understanding was that CW had to make the request, but please correct me if I'm wrong (I've also read stories about the difficulties of communicating with COSC as a consumer.)

Also unsure of how I would get the serial number of the movement as it's a closed caseback. Is it printed on the 60/60 warranty card? Otherwise, I have no way of obtaining the movement ID #

CW has sold several COSC watches in some of the NN and clearance sales without COSC certificates. These certificates were lost by CW or the original buyer and/or not returned to CW.

This is always posted with the watch for sale. It is entirely possible that the buyer did not realize what that meant or never saw it and this is reason he never received one. Getting a duplicate under these circumstances is next to impossible even if willing to pay the COSC fee. COSC usually has a hefty fee for a duplicate if they will issues one at all.
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

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Kip wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
CW has sold several COSC watches in some of the NN and clearance sales without COSC certificates. These certificates were lost by CW or the original buyer and/or not returned to CW.

This is always posted with the watch for sale. It is entirely possible that the buyer did not realize what that meant or never saw it and this is reason he never received one. Getting a duplicate under these circumstances is next to impossible even if willing to pay the COSC fee. COSC usually has a hefty fee for a duplicate if they will issues one at all.
Good point, I have seen some of these in the sales :thumbup:
C60 Elite GMT 1000, C65 SH21 LE, C65 Cranwell, C8 Power Reserve, C65 Super Compressor,
C65 Blue Bronze Prototype, C65 Black Gold LE, C65 316L LE, C60 Trident Pro 600 MkII, C5 MMXV FLE

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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

Post by ttix67 »

Kip wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:49 pm
ttix67 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:47 pm
.... I am in full and complete communication with the original buyer (with his name, order number, etc.) and even had him communicate with CW. I get their response with me, fine - but if their original buyer is asserting that he never received it, then it seems a bit troubling that they refused to acknowledge the situation.

I also concede what you're saying in that the original owner may be lying and may have tossed it. However, if that was the case, then the duplicate language in the COSC FAQ should kick in, but CW does not even seem to want to pursue that route either, even if the cost is borne to the customer. That's why I'm frustrated that there is no available solution here and the vagueness of the response I received. I'm all for that option, but even that seems foreclosed to me at this point. My understanding was that CW had to make the request, but please correct me if I'm wrong (I've also read stories about the difficulties of communicating with COSC as a consumer.)

Also unsure of how I would get the serial number of the movement as it's a closed caseback. Is it printed on the 60/60 warranty card? Otherwise, I have no way of obtaining the movement ID #

CW has sold several COSC watches in some of the NN and clearance sales without COSC certificates. These certificates were lost by CW or the original buyer and/or not returned to CW.

This is always posted with the watch for sale. It is entirely possible that the buyer did not realize what that meant or never saw it and this is reason he never received one. Getting a duplicate under these circumstances is next to impossible even if willing to pay the COSC fee. COSC usually has a hefty fee for a duplicate if they will issues one at all.
Thanks for your response, Kip. I agree 100% - in fact, I, myself, purchased a NN without the certificate. However, what frustrated me about this experience is that the buyer stated he bought the watch brand new from CW and just never received the certificate. His response from CW suggests that CW did package it with the certificate so it may be possible he inadvertently tossed it.

In any event, at the end of the day, it is just a piece of paper so perhaps I'll just do as Alex says and just enjoy it without worry of the missing certificate. I have no plans of selling in the near future, but it was more of a complete package/just-in-case type of thing.
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Re: SH21 Serial Number and COSC mismatch

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ttix67 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:56 am
In any event, at the end of the day, it is just a piece of paper so perhaps I'll just do as Alex says and just enjoy it without worry of the missing certificate. I have no plans of selling in the near future, but it was more of a complete package/just-in-case type of thing.
That's absolutely correct, and bizarrely enough my C8 PR seems to perform better than it's COSC certificate would indicate anyway :lol:

I also have no plans to sell, the only reason I advised CW was that the watch was bought direct from them and had the wrong certificate, so I wanted to ensure that got back to where it belonged... they then offered to provide a discount or locate the original (or duplicate)... so that's excellent customer service from my point of view :clap:

Hope the watch gives you years of enjoyment :thumbup:
C60 Elite GMT 1000, C65 SH21 LE, C65 Cranwell, C8 Power Reserve, C65 Super Compressor,
C65 Blue Bronze Prototype, C65 Black Gold LE, C65 316L LE, C60 Trident Pro 600 MkII, C5 MMXV FLE

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