Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by nbg »

^^^ JAFO your final paragraph above is only partially correct.

A visitor to the UK can still buy VAT free in the UK, providing that the item is shipped direct from the UK to the purchasers country of Residence. In that way the purchaser will then be required to pay their own country’s version of VAT, import duty and or luxury tax when the item is imported.

But yes those who used to buy in the UK, to take home in their luggage, will not be able to reclaim the UK VAT.

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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by JAFO »

nbg wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:01 pm
^^^ JAFO your final paragraph above is only partially correct.

A visitor to the UK can still buy VAT free in the UK, providing that the item is shipped direct from the UK to the purchasers country of Residence. In that way the purchaser will then be required to pay their own country’s version of VAT, import duty and or luxury tax when the item is imported.

But yes those who used to buy in the UK, to take home in their luggage, will not be able to reclaim the UK VAT.

Neil
Yes, they made that point on the Paul Thorpe channel. I suppose the jewellers will be primed to tell shoppers they can mail the watches for them. If UK buyers have a foreign address, they could do this too, but then they would have to smuggle stuff back into the UK. I suspect jewellers will want to see a foreign passport.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by Czechia »

H0rati0 wrote:
TheBeatles wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:57 pm
These questions could well be answered in the coming days if anyone from EU has bought in the current sale.
I will certainly be a guinea pig. My order confirmation shows UK VAT (which really it should not) but having spoken to CS they say that the VAT amount will be remitted to DHL to satisfy EU VAT. In theory, fine and not without precedent but we'll see how it works out....
I’m in same boat, ordered today being shipped to CZ and customer service told me the same over the phone when I queried it earlier in the day.

I paid the full UK VAT on my purchase today and was reassured I wouldn’t be required to pay it twice... if there is an issue somewhere along the line they told me to get in touch and they’ll speak with their DHL account manager.

I am expecting to be contacted by delivery company with no doubt done forms or declarations to sign and perhaps some nominal fees.


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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by H0rati0 »

Czechia wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:38 pm
H0rati0 wrote:
TheBeatles wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:57 pm
These questions could well be answered in the coming days if anyone from EU has bought in the current sale.
I will certainly be a guinea pig. My order confirmation shows UK VAT (which really it should not) but having spoken to CS they say that the VAT amount will be remitted to DHL to satisfy EU VAT. In theory, fine and not without precedent but we'll see how it works out....
I’m in same boat, ordered today being shipped to CZ and customer service told me the same over the phone when I queried it earlier in the day.

I paid the full UK VAT on my purchase today and was reassured I wouldn’t be required to pay it twice... if there is an issue somewhere along the line they told me to get in touch and they’ll speak with their DHL account manager.

I am expecting to be contacted by delivery company with no doubt done forms or declarations to sign and perhaps some nominal fees.


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Well, to reassure, my Singapore delivery via DHL was totally hassle (no paperwork reqd) free. From the UK should be the same, but there's no telling whether we'll see some teething troubles.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by A1soknownas »

H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:09 pm
I will certainly be a guinea pig. My order confirmation shows UK VAT (which really it should not) but having spoken to CS they say that the VAT amount will be remitted to DHL to satisfy EU VAT. In theory, fine and not without precedent but we'll see how it works out....
My guess would be that the CW have selected whatever approach requires the least amount of effort in terms of developing the web solution until it is necessary - after all nobody really knew what was going to happen to UK/EU trade until the last minute. This way the old approach applies of adding 20% with no changes at all and they carry on selling.

The new rules though would mean that goods do not need to include VAT at the point of sale and are classed as zero rated - removing the VAT from the selling price is up to them but it doesn't always happen in full or at all with some companies often when selling prices are in other currencies. VAT would be incurred at the point of entry based upon the destination country rate.

Companies like Amazon use a pre-paid deposit system which is normally a slight over estimation of the import duty (if applicable) and the buyers VAT rate for imports, not the sellers. This way the charge required will never be greater and the delivery will sail through. If less, a refund is issued from the deposit.

The CW approach of just using 20% may be ok for some countries with an equal or lower level, but many have rates which are higher. Without further explanation from CW and clarification that they are going to cover any difference via their DHL account or they are in fact applying the correct percentage and it is all lost in translation there could be issues. It may be just an interim approach to carry on selling until something can be put in place. If the 20% is always set you may pay more than you should but that may also enable CW to offset occasions where there is a greater charge to their account - That is unless someone actually gets a shock and has to pay another 5% themselves before delivery is realeased!
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by 0uatiOW »

H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:46 pm
0uatiOW wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:35 pm


I’ve never heard of this approach, and unless the VAT amount is adjusted for the recipient country’s VAT rate (or both country rates happen to match), this sounds incorrect. Tax authorities tend not to deal in approximations.
Last year I bought from Creation in Singapore and this was exactly what they did. VAT/shipping paid up front, delivered by DHL to my door, nothing more to pay. It may not be exact, but close enough for government work it seems.
Presumably VAT was prepaid at your home rate though, whatever that is, rather than 7% Singapore GST, which is the point I made. The VAT must be paid at the import country rate, not the export country. The inference from the earlier post is that *UK VAT* (20%) would be remitted to DHL, and that’s the piece I’m questioning.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by H0rati0 »

0uatiOW wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:20 pm


Presumably VAT was prepaid at your home rate though, whatever that is, rather than 7% Singapore GST, which is the point I made. The VAT must be paid at the import country rate, not the export country. The inference from the earlier post is that *UK VAT* (20%) would be remitted to DHL, and that’s the piece I’m questioning.
Correct, at VAT rate in Germany. Creation know the delivery address and thus destination VAT rate. There is presumably a DHL management fee too. As for CW, hopefully the 20% VAT they are charging covers me - but I do agree there are questions. Right now I'll suck and see, but expecting a wrinkle or two...
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by JAFO »

nbg wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:01 pm
^^^ JAFO your final paragraph above is only partially correct.

A visitor to the UK can still buy VAT free in the UK, providing that the item is shipped direct from the UK to the purchasers country of Residence. In that way the purchaser will then be required to pay their own country’s version of VAT, import duty and or luxury tax when the item is imported.

But yes those who used to buy in the UK, to take home in their luggage, will not be able to reclaim the UK VAT.

Neil
Just as an addendum to this, on his channel the other day, Paul Thorpe seemed to think that export shoppers were able to buy in duty free shops, but instead of mailing the items, they were then being given the goods by the retailers before boarding the plane, after checking in to the departure lounges. I doubt very much this was intended, as it gives an easy way of avoiding local sales taxes for the buyers. It also gives a way to get more dangerous stuff than watches on a plane, so maybe it's just anecdotal gossip.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by 0uatiOW »

JAFO wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:46 am
Just as an addendum to this, on his channel the other day, Paul Thorpe seemed to think that export shoppers were able to buy in duty free shops, but instead of mailing the items, they were then being given the goods by the retailers before boarding the plane, after checking in to the departure lounges.
I’ve seen this in several countries. It’s a way of ensuring the goods do in fact leave the country. If you later return with the goods, you are usually expected to pay the duty because you haven’t exported them. If you are indeed exporting them, you may be required to pay import duties in the country where the goods eventually land.

Taxes will get you in the end, unless you happen to living in the USA which has a hefty $800 duty free allowance. By comparison, the UK allows imports up to £15 tax free. Yes fifteen.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by Galton321 »

I believe that under the terms of the trade deal with the EU it is been agreed that EU sellers to the UK will be required to add UK VAT to the purchase price and remit the VAT to the UK revenue authorities. In essence getting the EU seller to do the UK's tax collecting for them. This has resulted in many small EU retailers stopping selling to the UK as they do not wish to bear this additional admin costs. This only applies to businesses whose trade is less than £70000 with the UK. Larger companies will need the full customs palaver. This would not apply to non-EU countries where the existing arrangements still apply. I am not entirely certain of this so will delve further.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by JAFO »

Re the additional duty. Yes, I've just noticed that. I bought some bader/omega type clasps before Christmas on ebay. I wanted to buy some more, and noticed they had gone up a bit. As I flicked through the payment process, I noticed a reference to VAT, but ignored it. I went back, and then saw that what's happening is ebay are adding the VAT on to the sale price, and no doubt passing the VAT over to HMRC. So the price shown includes ebay's VAT charge.

I don't know what will happen now with personal imports from AliExpress and the like as they seem to understate the value on their packages.

In passing I also took delivery of a Invicta Europe watch today. I expected to be charged VAT, but nothing happened, and the goods just got delivered. I think Invicta must be accounting for the VAT to UK Customs within the price they charge - that's what we thought CW was doing was stuff going the other way, wasn't it.

I can't think either Invicta or CW have turnover below 70K, though. It actually makes more sense to allow large companies to account for the VAT to streamline the process.

[edit. Apologies for this post. I mis-read the topic as generally to do with UK-EU transfers and my answer dealt with EU to the UK. I won't delete it as it might be useful info]
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by opettaja »

I can confirm to Finland (EU) from UK with CW I was charged (last week) on purchase (CW website) the Finnish VAT rate (24%) instead of the UK VAT, and no taxes or duties on import. Had to give DHL my details and the original order confirmation from CW for them to check though as CW had not made a customs declaration. So basically, no extras to pay when ordering to the EU, just the tax rate is your local VAT rate.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by H0rati0 »

^^^^^

The VAT payment mechanism does seem to be working. I will find out personally shortly as I have now had my despatch email.
shaggy wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:33 pm
Chris_Germany wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:32 pm
JAFO wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:00 pm


Well that made me smile. We have discussed this, haven't we. :D
If EU customs can confiscate truck drivers ham sandwiches, they will certainly not forget to deal with local sales tax.
The Customer Service told me, that DHL asked for custom-payments twice. The sorted it out, that we don´t have to pay anything (VAT or customs) when the pacel arrives to us. :)
As I wrote before. I'm in central europe / EU. After i have provided all requested info to DHL it has arrived w/o any duties, vat whatever. I didnt pay anything on top. Which is great.
And i love the c65 trident diver! Now i have to find a bracelet for affordable price to love it even more :)
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by JAFO »

opettaja wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:55 pm
I can confirm to Finland (EU) from UK with CW I was charged (last week) on purchase (CW website) the Finnish VAT rate (24%) instead of the UK VAT, and no taxes or duties on import. Had to give DHL my details and the original order confirmation from CW for them to check though as CW had not made a customs declaration. So basically, no extras to pay when ordering to the EU, just the tax rate is your local VAT rate.
So presumably CW had to reduce the net goods amount (by about 4%) so that the net total plus the Finnish VAT came back to the amount you had paid, and DHL are sort of shepherding the process. The net goods is CW income so they lose a bit because of the higher VAT rate.
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Re: Brexit - additional duty to pay (UK to EU shipping)

Post by MiniMpi »

My first big purchase from the UK following Brexit has arrived in Ireland via DHL.
Checked the tracking this morning and they appear to need more information from CW.
Fingers crossed it gets sorted out soon.
I was informed before this from CW that there is nothing payable on my side even VAT as it is taken on CWs end.
We'll see how it all turns out.
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