C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

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andyh41
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C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by andyh41 »

Hi,
So I got my C65 Trident automatic back in June and up until the beginning of this month had been working fine. Now though it keeps stopping, and in one case stopped just 1 hour after taking it off. I know i'm probably not as active as normal, what with working from home, but how much activity does an auto need to charge the reserve? I contacted CW and they suggested I wound it 80 times to fully power up the reserve. I duly did this and it conked out about 1.5 days later (that's pretty much the quoted reserve). This suggests to me that normal wearing is barely charging the reserve at all.
I sent it back for checking and was told that there was no problem with it. When I questioned this they sent it back for another check. I've just heard that the second check also found no problems. I've asked them to explain how they've tested it and am waiting for a response. What do you think I should do? I don't want it back as it is, as i'll just need to wind it up every night to stop it from stopping before morning!
Thanks,
Andy
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by Commisar »

andyh41 wrote:Hi,
So I got my C65 Trident automatic back in June and up until the beginning of this month had been working fine. Now though it keeps stopping, and in one case stopped just 1 hour after taking it off. I know i'm probably not as active as normal, what with working from home, but how much activity does an auto need to charge the reserve? I contacted CW and they suggested I wound it 80 times to fully power up the reserve. I duly did this and it conked out about 1.5 days later (that's pretty much the quoted reserve). This suggests to me that normal wearing is barely charging the reserve at all.
I sent it back for checking and was told that there was no problem with it. When I questioned this they sent it back for another check. I've just heard that the second check also found no problems. I've asked them to explain how they've tested it and am waiting for a response. What do you think I should do? I don't want it back as it is, as i'll just need to wind it up every night to stop it from stopping before morning!
Thanks,
Andy
You just gotten move around more. I can get a C60 trident to stop working after a few days if west just sitting at a PC working and not getting up and walking around. Your wrist need to be mobile.

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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by andyh41 »

I know what you mean, and that did cross my mind. But even on a day when I take the dog out for a couple of walks, it still stops.
That can't be right, can it?
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by RichM »

^^^ that indeed sounds wrong to me. I think it should hold power better than that.
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by gaf1958 »

andyh41 wrote:I know what you mean, and that did cross my mind. But even on a day when I take the dog out for a couple of walks, it still stops.
That can't be right, can it?
You don’t by any chance hold the leash with the hand that wears the watch? One could speculate that there’d be fairly minimal movement of the rotor if so.
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by jtc »

Sounds faulty to me, I'd send to CW to take a look.
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by jimbo »

Buy a car with a manual gear box, and drive around as an uber driver....that will keep it wound up :)
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Funny things, automatics. No two are completely alike. I have always found the SW200 or 2824 harder to keep wound than some others I've had.

My first ever auto was a CW. It kept stopping, but I was only wearing it for a few hours in the evenings most of the time, using a different watch for work. It sounds like you don't have that problem, and you understand autos better than I did back then..

Try holding the watch (securely) dial up in your hand and move your hand sharply sideways. Wait a couple of seconds then do the same in the opposite direction. I call it "shake-wake" and it's the only way to get some of the Japanese non-hand winders to power up (20-30 shakes).

With some watches (e.g. Orient Mako) you can really feel the rotor whizzing around; others less so.

I bought a second hand CW a couple of years ago and it wasn't holding power. The rotor was very "sticky" and didn't move at all freely. A service (it was 9 years old) sorted it out.

You need to establish whether the watch's behaviour is different, or yours has changed. If you have a winder, hand wind it as CW suggest, then leave it on the winder for a few days. Take it off and let it run down. If it gets nowhere near the stated PR I would say you have a problem with the rotor. If it achieves PR then the rotor is probably OK.
jimbo wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:43 am
Buy a car with a manual gear box, and drive around as an uber driver....that will keep it wound up :)
That would work if the rotor is OK. Driving a manual in heavy traffic you are constantly flipping the wrist...assuming it's on your gear changing arm!
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by andyh41 »

Thanks for your comments. Re the dog walking, she's mostly off the lead, so plenty of arm swinging going on!

If I shake my wrist after the watch has stopped, it will start up again, so the rotor works to a degree - it just doesn't seem to charge up enough to last the night. When I first got it, it took maybe 5 turns to get it started, and then with normal wear it would keep going until I left it off for a couple of days - that seems like normal behaviour to me. Now it's just so different.
I'm now waiting for CW to get back to me again about how it was tested - I presume they put it on a winder for a while and then see how long it lasts?
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by Commisar »

andyh41 wrote:Thanks for your comments. Re the dog walking, she's mostly off the lead, so plenty of arm swinging going on!

If I shake my wrist after the watch has stopped, it will start up again, so the rotor works to a degree - it just doesn't seem to charge up enough to last the night. When I first got it, it took maybe 5 turns to get it started, and then with normal wear it would keep going until I left it off for a couple of days - that seems like normal behaviour to me. Now it's just so different.
I'm now waiting for CW to get back to me again about how it was tested - I presume they put it on a winder for a while and then see how long it lasts?
Ah ha, I think I've got it. You turned the crown JUST enough to get the movement running then wore it. Then as you wore it you probably only gave it 6-12 hours of "charge". I've done the same. That means it'll run out overnight.

Also, it IS possible that the lubricant wasn't applied evenly or that irndired a bit and got sticky.

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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by andyh41 »

Update
My watch came back from CW just before Christmas, but they were unable to find fault with it. I wasn't too pleased about that as it didn't seem to be working correctly to me, but i'm pleased to say it's now behaving itself again. I do now give it a few turns before taking it off at night (most of the time), and so far it hasn't stopped once. Whether that is the answer, or whether it just got a bump in the post, it's nice to have it dependable again!
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by JAFO »

Depends on the movement exactly how much winding it needs. You can't over wind an automatic watch, so you can't be completely sure, but it might take 40 or more turns to fully wind a watch, or fully charge the mainspring. With a manual.wind you feel.a resistance preventing you winding further, but you don't get that with an auto. Some watches have visible power reserve which shows the percentage of the full wind left in the watch, which is a very nice complication to have.

If you are just giving it a few turns, or a few shakes, you will only be charging it very lightly. Given a "standard" 38 hour power reserve, you must need a good quarter power charge to do 10 hours, which may well be 12 or more winds.
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by rkovars »

I found this on another forum and if accurate would explain a whole lot. Unfortunately, I can't vouch for the accuracy. :(
Generally speaking you need at least 100 full rotations of the rotor before the ratchet wheel makes 1 revolution, and 7-9 full revolutions of the ratchet wheel are needed to fully wind the mainspring. This is true for almost all automatics with power reserves of around 40 hours. Given that nearly 1000 rotor turns are needed to fully wind a mainspring, it is unlikely that a mainspring of an ETA2824 can be fully wound by normal movement alone unless you are very active.

The alternative is to handwind it, and 25-30 turns should fully find the mainspring
When I first got my C65 GMT I emailed customer service on how many winds I should give it and he said 20. I would imagine that would give anywhere between 3/4 and full. You can give it a full wind and listen for the clutch counting the turns. You can hear it. That would give you a definitive number but I don't think it is necessary given the information above. I also don't think it would hurt the watch as long as you don't make it a daily habit.
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by JAFO »

On another point, I think that when you notice the rotor spinning fast, that isn't actually winding the watch, but may attest to decent bearings in the mechanism. Some watches only wind in one direction, and freespin in the other direction.
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Re: C65 Trident automatic keeps stopping

Post by rkovars »

The SW200s and ETA2824s we are talking about here are bidirectional. It shouldn't free spin in either direction. The rotor shouldn't spin when you turn the crown either (the dreaded spinning rotor syndrome).

FYI, I have the Super Compressor with an exhibition case back. I gave it a 'Seiko shuffle' while watching the movement and each shake only gives the rotor a 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Spinning the watch in a parallel axis with the rotor was more efficient.
Current CW = C65 Trident Vintage GMT, C65 Dartmouth, C60 Trident Ombre COSC LE, C65 Super Compressor

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2 More CW's on the short list! (This is pretty much a lie - I have at least 10 CW Tabs open at the moment!)
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