Repair Question

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BLR1
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Repair Question

Post by BLR1 »

So o bought a 40mm Trident GMT and got it in the mail last week. It is truly stunning to look at and is perfect in my wrist. However, it’s running about -15 sec per day and something about the winding doesn’t feel right to me.

I’m not sure if it’s just a slow watch or if something is going on with the spring or how the crown engages. To the touch, I can’t even feel it wind when I turn the crown, but if I listen close enough, I can hear it. I also hear another click occasionally as if the spring tightness was releasing. (I don’t know anything about the inside of a watch, but that’s the best way to explain.

Do I have to send this back? If I did, would they tell me nothing is wrong since it’s technically within the +\- 20 sec on their site? Also, being that I’m from the US, is it more hassle than it’s worth to send back and wait?

My other thought is to just take it to my watch guy and have him check it out and fix even if that voids the warranty.

What do you think?

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Bident
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Re: Repair Question

Post by Bident »

BLR1 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:12 pm
So o bought a 40mm Trident GMT and got it in the mail last week. It is truly stunning to look at and is perfect in my wrist. However, it’s running about -15 sec per day and something about the winding doesn’t feel right to me.

I’m not sure if it’s just a slow watch or if something is going on with the spring or how the crown engages. To the touch, I can’t even feel it wind when I turn the crown, but if I listen close enough, I can hear it. I also hear another click occasionally as if the spring tightness was releasing. (I don’t know anything about the inside of a watch, but that’s the best way to explain.

Do I have to send this back? If I did, would they tell me nothing is wrong since it’s technically within the +\- 20 sec on their site? Also, being that I’m from the US, is it more hassle than it’s worth to send back and wait?

My other thought is to just take it to my watch guy and have him check it out and fix even if that voids the warranty.

What do you think?
The Sellita 330 or ETA 2893 (CWard uses either for the GMT models and they are for all intents and purposes substantially the same movement) both have buttery smooth hand winding. It is difficult to even feel any resistance initially, but as the watch becomes fully wound you will notice more resistance. The clicking sound you hear is most likely the clutch, the mechanism that prevents the movement from being overwound either via your handwinding or from the weighted rotor spinning around due to your arm movements as you wear the watch.

It sounds perfectly normal from your description, the -15sec per day is within tolerance although some movements perform better, some worse: usually just the luck of the draw. One thing you can do to mitigate the time loss is experiment with how you rest the watch overnight off your wrist as you sleep. Try dial up, dial down, crown up, crown down, and if possible using some type of support, 12 o’clock down and 12 o’clock up. Usually you will be able to find one or more positions that offset the time loss or gain, but it is a matter of trial and error unless you are willing to buy a timegrapher to give you those measurements on the spot. I have one SW330 and two ETA 2893’s and have found the 12 o’clock down position (the watch is vertically held on my watch winder with the 12 o’clock side at the bottom, but watch winder NOT running) speeds up timekeeping. But again, every watch can be different.

Also, any decent watchmaker can regulate your watch to be more accurate. I’m not sure how much it costs but I can’t imagine it would be more than $100 to $200.

Hope this helps and congrats on your new watch!
Best regards,
John

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Re: Repair Question

Post by Macdaz »

I found exactly the same with my C65 GMT I thought it was broken when I first wound it, but it is just really smooth.

Timekeeping is within tolerance so it would appear there is not a fault. It is the the luck of the draw my C65 GMT runs at +<1s/per day and I’ve got a c8 runs at +20s/per day. I figure I’m not going far in 20s so I can live with that.
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Re: Repair Question

Post by BLR1 »

Fair enough. Thank you, both. Sounds like the only issue is with MY tolerance. :) I’ll try the 12 o’clock down position tonight and see what happens.

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Re: Repair Question

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

BLR1 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 11:22 pm
Fair enough. Thank you, both. Sounds like the only issue is with MY tolerance. :) I’ll try the 12 o’clock down position tonight and see what happens.
Perhaps you ought to wear it consistently for a couple of weeks to allow the movement to settle down after its trans Atlantic journey.

Guy
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Re: Repair Question

Post by Thermexman »

You shouldn’t be hand winding an automatic watch to the point where you’re engaging the clutch. The handbooks used to recommend approx 20 winds from stopped, to get the engine running. I think they now say 10. The idea is that you get the movement started, then the rota does the rest. Fully hand winding an automatic will eventually wear the ratchet wheel and lead to the dreaded spinning rota syndrome.
Steve.

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Re: Repair Question

Post by BLR1 »

Thanks, Guy. Won’t have any problems wearing it consistently. It’s a fantastic looking piece. Maybe it just needs some love and attention after being boxed up and shipped across the world.

I’m just glad there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with the movement itself. Can’t believe how easy, quiet this thing is to wind.

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Re: Repair Question

Post by BLR1 »

Thermexman wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 7:25 pm
You shouldn’t be hand winding an automatic watch to the point where you’re engaging the clutch. The handbooks used to recommend approx 20 winds from stopped, to get the engine running. I think they now say 10. The idea is that you get the movement started, then the rota does the rest. Fully hand winding an automatic will eventually wear the ratchet wheel and lead to the dreaded spinning rota syndrome.
Yeah, I was worried about that and stopped immediately when I thought that’s what it could be. I was just worried I wasn’t active enough while wearing it and/or the hand winding wasn’t engaging since it was losing more time than I’m accustomed to. Will definitely make it a point to not over wind.

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Re: Repair Question

Post by Jcalder68 »

My C65 GMT is also utterly silent when hand winding. Even with it up against my ear, I can hear nothing and I was advised (on a visit to CW Towers showroom to pick the watch up) that this was thanks to it having the ETA version of the movement. Apparently, the ETA is just that bit more quiet than the Sellita variant.
-15sec a day is a bit disappointing, but it can be rectified to a degree without the need to return the watch for service. As mentioned, your daily wear/rest habits and position will have a huge effect on its timing. Also, most mechanical watches need several weeks/months to settle into a timing pattern as the mechanism beds in and its oils distribute themselves.
With any “new” watch I’ve owned I rarely stress over their timing accuracy before I’ve had it for a fortnight or so (on my winder, worn indoors with all the plastic intact etc, just in case).
Saying that though, CW do offer a regulation service for around £25. I had one of my hoard go through this a few months back and it was good to know that the “standard” movement was set to be as good as it could be.

Stay safe,

C
CW Watches (To Date): C65 Trident Vintage MK2, C65 Sandhurst, C65 Dartmouth, C60 Pro 300, C60 Pro 600 Vintage, C65 GMT.
Others (To Date): Sinn 104, Seiko SNA411, G-Shock, Seiko SKX007

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Re: Repair Question

Post by BLR1 »

So, since I’m extremely impatient, should the watch be trending towards normalcy over the next week or two? Or will it magically course correct one day?

I ask, because I’ve worn it every day for 10 days now, and it’s actually more like -18 or -19 sec/day. So if anything, it’s trending in the wrong direction. Placement at night doesn’t seem to matter much (12 o’clock down may get me to -16 or -17).

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Re: Repair Question

Post by Bident »

BLR1 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:20 pm
So, since I’m extremely impatient, should the watch be trending towards normalcy over the next week or two? Or will it magically course correct one day?

I ask, because I’ve worn it every day for 10 days now, and it’s actually more like -18 or -19 sec/day. So if anything, it’s trending in the wrong direction. Placement at night doesn’t seem to matter much (12 o’clock down may get me to -16 or -17).
I have honestly never had a watch "course correct," they have usually had the same accuracy as day one of ownership. But contrary to my experience, I have read many times that a watch needs time to "break in." How much time I think is subject to debate. Here's a screen shot from www.watchbuys.com under their FAQ section. Watchbuys is the exclusive distributer/AD for select brands, mainly German including Sinn and Nomos here in the USA:
www.watchbuys.com.png
As you can see, 2-3 months is their answer. I probably wouldn't wait that long if it were bothering me and would take it to a local watchmaker to be regulated. Alternatively, you can call or email CW and see if they present you with any reasonable options.
Best regards,
John

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Re: Repair Question

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Initially, I would say keep a record of its performance if you are able to do so. Keep a spreadsheet of how it performs on the wrist, on a winder and in various resting positions. If it is not COSC, then it is about on the cusp for stated acceptable performance.

Also, as stated above, give it time to settle down. My most accurate, or rather precise, watch is an automatic (Cartier) that when new was gaining about 10 seconds per day. Over a couple of months this gradually reduced and now, four years on, it doesn’t gain 10 seconds in a week if I wear it consistently. It slows down a little on the winder, but that’s all.

Another watch that I wear very regularly is a hand wound model (Speedmaster) that has gained nine seconds per day with metronomic regularity throughout its 3-year life. When it gets to 30 seconds fast I simply knock it back by a minute and it is good to go for another week. I keep it running most of the time.

I used to get quite het up about the precision or accuracy of watches, but these days I’m fine if they’re pointing pretty much to the right minute. Or in the case of the one I’m about to take delivery of, the right five-minute slot! :lol:

In the first couple of years after I joined the forum I used to do week-long accuracy tests comparing the performance of pairs of watches. I gave that up quite a long time ago and have no intention of starting again. I just wear and enjoy them.
Steve
The half minute which we daily devote to the winding-up of our watches is an exertion of labour almost insensible; yet, by the aid of a few wheels, its effect is spread over the whole twenty-four hours.
Charles Babbage


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Re: Repair Question

Post by rkovars »

Are you using an app to keep track of timing? On iOS I use WatchTracker. It won't be dead on (there is a manual tap to compare to atomic time) but it is close enough to track a watch from day to day. I usually only check the accuracy once a day. This isn't explicitly needed but you want a good amount of time between accuracy checks to smooth out the effects of the human error.
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Re: Repair Question

Post by BLR1 »

rkovars wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:33 pm
Are you using an app to keep track of timing? On iOS I use WatchTracker. It won't be dead on (there is a manual tap to compare to atomic time) but it is close enough to track a watch from day to day. I usually only check the accuracy once a day. This isn't explicitly needed but you want a good amount of time between accuracy checks to smooth out the effects of the human error.
I actually just discovered that app yesterday. It’s saying -24 per day, although when I measured over 24 hours, it was at -20 today. It was pretty spot on with how my other watches usually run.

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Re: Repair Question

Post by Aveleydave »

"The clicking sound you hear is most likely the clutch, the mechanism that prevents the movement from being overwound either via your handwinding or from the weighted rotor spinning around due to your arm movements as you wear the watch."

The clicking sound you hear when winding by hand is the 'click'. A small component that prevents the mainspring unwinding through the keyless works, like a handbrake if you like.

Dave.

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