Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
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Viognier
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Viognier » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:34 pm

Thank you to theo_s, scooter, golf junky, Thegreyman, downer, nbg, albionphoto, Soporsche, Commisar and Kip for your comments! I welcome all comments and discussion related to this post.

As Soporsche noted, the purpose of my post was to share feedback from a fellow watch enthusiast who had a collection of well known brands in his watch box. I cannot speak for his next steps on selling anything and sourcing a C60 MK3.

I can speak to my thoughts. IF the C60 Mk3, with today's fit and finish, existed in 2016, I doubt I would have spent my money on an Omega Diver (at 6x the cost).

The topic has been WELL explored on the forum about the 'law of diminishing watch value' when you move from let's say Seiko/Orient up to a Christopher Ward/Oris or further to an Omega/Rolex. It comes down to personal choices and how each of us elect to deploy their savings. No right or wrong here.

For my learning, what other brands have a quick release bracelet? I believe Christopher Ward is an early adopter and showed thought and practicality leadership.

IMO
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Commisar » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:52 pm

Viognier wrote:Thank you to theo_s, scooter, golf junky, Thegreyman, downer, nbg, albionphoto, Soporsche, Commisar and Kip for your comments! I welcome all comments and discussion related to this post.

As Soporsche noted, the purpose of my post was to share feedback from a fellow watch enthusiast who had a collection of well known brands in his watch box. I cannot speak for his next steps on selling anything and sourcing a C60 MK3.

I can speak to my thoughts. IF the C60 Mk3, with today's fit and finish, existed in 2016, I doubt I would have spent my money on an Omega Diver (at 6x the cost).

The topic has been WELL explored on the forum about the 'law of diminishing watch value' when you move from let's say Seiko/Orient up to a Christopher Ward/Oris or further to an Omega/Rolex. It comes down to personal choices and how each of us elect to deploy their savings. No right or wrong here.

For my learning, what other brands have a quick release bracelet? I believe Christopher Ward is an early adopter and showed thought and practicality leadership.

IMO
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by albionphoto » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:36 pm

Maybe I should write my review comparing the C60 Mk 2.5 to an Omega Seamaster....
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by nbg » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Viognier wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:34 pm
For my learning, what other brands have a quick release bracelet? I believe Christopher Ward is an early adopter and showed thought and practicality leadership.
I agree that CW are ahead of the curve with QR bracelets.

The only watch that I have tried on that had one is this one. :)
1D08EE68-742A-4F44-A52D-37B5B082E5DA.jpeg
0D9BE3E2-F521-47AA-B76A-91591CD30BC4.jpeg
Time to remove bracelet and attach either of the rubber or alligator straps that come with the watch - about a minute.

I think there are a couple of other brands that have them, where I have seen pics online, but I can’t remember which brands.

Neil
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Bident » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:40 pm

Viognier wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:34 pm

For my learning, what other brands have a quick release bracelet? I believe Christopher Ward is an early adopter and showed thought and practicality leadership.
The first QR bracelet I came upon was Baltic’s beads-of-rice bracelet, sometime in late 2018, a few months ahead of CW’s QR bracelet early last year.
Best regards,
John

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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by albionphoto » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:12 pm

golfjunky wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:25 pm
When things like 'Phenomenal quality' are mentioned and people owning Rolex, Zenith etc saying 'why would anyone want anything more' (is he going to sell everything then and buy a CW? NO.) it gets my back up as everything has +/-'s but to be blindly fanboying just doesn't sit right with me.
IMO they have become better in many ways but are still flat lining in the microbrand space. Maybe its rose tinted specs on CW of old but as other have mentioned the prices are starting to play with the big boys and there is no big article/media outlet that i have seen that gives any traction to them being able to play with the big boys. The GPHG nomination is great but so niche that 99.999% of potential buyers will never see that. I also see the flip side that to be taken more seriously the prices have to increase as quality is also measured by price (rightly or wrongly)
Im happy to stand corrected on the QR bracelet being amazing but i have not seen anything about it outside of the forum and CW fanboy journo's.

To answer the market penetration question, surely featuring in Hodinkee would be a start, they have not featured for over 3 1/2yrs on that site. Im not saying they are the be all and end all but have a huge reach and respect in the commnunity.
I wasn't sure if I was going to respond to this post at all but in the end I couldn't resist. It seems to me that the vast majority of online watch journalism concentrates on new releases. A lot of sites also concentrate on higher end brands and brands that they can sell in their own stores. There are some technical articles, some of which are very good, but there are very few articles which address mundane issues such as changing straps or bracelets.
I'm not brave enough to suggest that quick release straps and bracelets are a massive innovation. They aren't. However, they are a solution to a very real customer "pain". That is having to use tools to change a strap or having to take a watch to a jeweler/watchmaker to have a strap changed. There are many people on here who are happy to do this for themselves; I'm not one of them. Having QR straps and bracelets makes my life easier - it addresses a customer pain. That's not sexy, that's not haute horology, but it is useful to me. On a similar vein the idea of having push button quick adjustment (PBQA) on bracelets also solves a customer pain. With a push-button quick adjust I don't need a to fiddle with tools to adjust a bracelet or to take a half link out. This isn't sexy either but it makes me want to wear my watches more often as I can be assured that they will be comfortable all day, nor matter what the weather or my blood pressure happens to be. There are some comments about PBQA mechanisms but mainly in reference to how lovely Rolex' versions are and how everything else sucks in comparison.
I do read Hodinkee frequently, I've even bought a copy of their magazine, but I am always aware that I'm not their target customer. The watches they most often feature are out of my league and I'm not part of the NYC metropolitan elite (or similar) that they target. Widely read and respected they may be but they are not going to cover CW endlessly as CW don't have the release schedule or budget to get them to do so. Perhaps I'm being overly harsh on Hodinkee but of the websites I read frequently theirs is the one I most frequently pass over for having nothing to say to me.
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Commisar » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:42 pm

albionphoto wrote:
golfjunky wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:25 pm
When things like 'Phenomenal quality' are mentioned and people owning Rolex, Zenith etc saying 'why would anyone want anything more' (is he going to sell everything then and buy a CW? NO.) it gets my back up as everything has +/-'s but to be blindly fanboying just doesn't sit right with me.
IMO they have become better in many ways but are still flat lining in the microbrand space. Maybe its rose tinted specs on CW of old but as other have mentioned the prices are starting to play with the big boys and there is no big article/media outlet that i have seen that gives any traction to them being able to play with the big boys. The GPHG nomination is great but so niche that 99.999% of potential buyers will never see that. I also see the flip side that to be taken more seriously the prices have to increase as quality is also measured by price (rightly or wrongly)
Im happy to stand corrected on the QR bracelet being amazing but i have not seen anything about it outside of the forum and CW fanboy journo's.

To answer the market penetration question, surely featuring in Hodinkee would be a start, they have not featured for over 3 1/2yrs on that site. Im not saying they are the be all and end all but have a huge reach and respect in the commnunity.
I wasn't sure if I was going to respond to this post at all but in the end I couldn't resist. It seems to me that the vast majority of online watch journalism concentrates on new releases. A lot of sites also concentrate on higher end brands and brands that they can sell in their own stores. There are some technical articles, some of which are very good, but there are very few articles which address mundane issues such as changing straps or bracelets.
I'm not brave enough to suggest that quick release straps and bracelets are a massive innovation. They aren't. However, they are a solution to a very real customer "pain". That is having to use tools to change a strap or having to take a watch to a jeweler/watchmaker to have a strap changed. There are many people on here who are happy to do this for themselves; I'm not one of them. Having QR straps and bracelets makes my life easier - it addresses a customer pain. That's not sexy, that's not haute horology, but it is useful to me. On a similar vein the idea of having push button quick adjustment (PBQA) on bracelets also solves a customer pain. With a push-button quick adjust I don't need a to fiddle with tools to adjust a bracelet or to take a half link out. This isn't sexy either but it makes me want to wear my watches more often as I can be assured that they will be comfortable all day, nor matter what the weather or my blood pressure happens to be. There are some comments about PBQA mechanisms but mainly in reference to how lovely Rolex' versions are and how everything else sucks in comparison.
I do read Hodinkee frequently, I've even bought a copy of their magazine, but I am always aware that I'm not their target customer. The watches they most often feature are out of my league and I'm not part of the NYC metropolitan elite (or similar) that they target. Widely read and respected they may be but they are not going to cover CW endlessly as CW don't have the release schedule or budget to get them to do so. Perhaps I'm being overly harsh on Hodinkee but of the websites I read frequently theirs is the one I most frequently pass over for having nothing to say to me.
100% agree

Little things like QR bracelets and tool-less adjustable bracelets are things you simply don't find on most sub $1000 or even sub $2000 watches even though they make the ownership experience so much better.

Furthermore, the VAST majority of adjustable bracelets that aren't from Omega, Rolex, IWC, or ultra high end brands like that simple recycle the EXACT same ratcheting clasp that Strapcode sells. That clasp extends a metal "tongue" out of the clasp vs the CW method of feeding links into the clasp (like Rolex, Omega and IWC)

Hodinkee and publications like it live off of the luxury and ultra enthusiast brands yearly release/hype schedule.

Meanwhile, CW does a watch redesign every 3-5 years or so....

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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by timor54 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:07 pm

For all the talk about quick release and micro adjustment bracelets CW still haven’t got around to implementing screwed links. What quality brand today still perseveres with pin and collar ](*,)
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by albionphoto » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:15 pm

Screwed links aren't a panacea though. My Seamaster had to have the screws removed by heating the bracelet and forcing them out. They were pretty mangled after that. Apparently, when the bracelet was assembled the screws were put in too tightly and didn't want to come out. I'm still waiting for Omega to get the spare parts in so I can wear the watch again.
I do agree that screw links would be a good next step in the CW quality journey.

"Customer pain", "Quality journey" - Oh dearie, dearie me. I spend far too much time with marketing.
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by MarkingTime » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:53 pm

Anecdote alert!

I know a few watch appreciators/collectors and almost all compare the build quality to Breitling, amongst others.

That is not to say that they would take the CW over the more expensive watch, but that is not really the point.

It's all about personal taste and to some extent, the kudos in owning something special.

Take the names off the dials and you be hard pressed to determine much difference in fit and finish between many top brands, perceived differences are likely to be down to design more than anything else.

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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by MarkingTime » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 pm

timor54 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:07 pm
For all the talk about quick release and micro adjustment bracelets CW still haven’t got around to implementing screwed links. What quality brand today still perseveres with pin and collar ](*,)
Not sure I agree entirely, as once the bracelet is sized, it's fit and forget. The connection type becomes largely irrelevant, as long as it does the job.

Screw links do look nice though.

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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Devarika Woulf » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:45 am

golfjunky wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:25 pm
When things like 'Phenomenal quality' are mentioned and people owning Rolex, Zenith etc saying 'why would anyone want anything more' (is he going to sell everything then and buy a CW? NO.) it gets my back up as everything has +/-'s but to be blindly fanboying just doesn't sit right with me.
IMO they have become better in many ways but are still flat lining in the microbrand space. Maybe its rose tinted specs on CW of old but as other have mentioned the prices are starting to play with the big boys and there is no big article/media outlet that i have seen that gives any traction to them being able to play with the big boys. The GPHG nomination is great but so niche that 99.999% of potential buyers will never see that. I also see the flip side that to be taken more seriously the prices have to increase as quality is also measured by price (rightly or wrongly)
The Trident Mk III is competing with divers near it's price range (Grey Market) like the Oris Aquis, Longines HydroConquest, and Tag Heuer Aquaracer. The quality is on par or better in certain areas. But the Trident isn't playing quite with the big companies yet.

From all I've read and seen, the only micro brand competing with the big boys is Monta and their Oceanking. Though it costs $1000 more, the quality is about on-par with Tudor and close to Omega. It uses just a typical Swiss movement but it's regulated well. CW do have their nicer in-house movement but aren't using them on the Tridents currently. I personally wouldn't pay the large increase over a Sellita/ETA.

What hit me was when I watched Average Bros' comparison of the two watches was how the C60 isn't in the same league as the OK. It uses some fancy bits to give you hints of polish but it's limited to keep costs down. The quick-release is nice and the bracelet is great quality but the finishing itself doesn't have a bit of polish to it. It's well done brushing but it's simple and saves them money overall.

They're great watches for they are though and shouldn't be judged at the incredible price they're sold at. I love my C65 and the quality does pop right out at you. But close inspection here and there can reveal the budget if you dig. It's time for a step-up for me and I see a Monta being my next purchase.
-Joseph

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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by MiniMpi » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:36 pm

Very interesting post Lance :clap:

Yes I am a huge fan of CW watches so I am biased.
However I recently saw first hand some classic watch brands and models : Omega Moonwatch, Rolex Sub etc and I felt very underwhelmed.....
I just didn't see the additional money at all, lovely watches yes but I won't be buying either of them if I had the money to do so.

Again this is my view, some will disagree and some may well agree but at the end of the day we all like watches and whichever one takes our fancy is what makes horology an interesting hobby.
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Thunder1 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:51 pm

MiniMpi wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:36 pm

Again this is my view, some will disagree and some may well agree but at the end of the day we all like watches and whichever one takes our fancy is what makes horology an interesting hobby.
Word...
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Re: Christopher Ward Watch Praise

Post by Viognier » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:19 pm

MiniMpi wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:36 pm
Very interesting post Lance :clap:

Yes I am a huge fan of CW watches so I am biased.
However I recently saw first hand some classic watch brands and models : Omega Moonwatch, Rolex Sub etc and I felt very underwhelmed.....
I just didn't see the additional money at all, lovely watches yes but I won't be buying either of them if I had the money to do so.

Again this is my view, some will disagree and some may well agree but at the end of the day we all like watches and whichever one takes our fancy is what makes horology an interesting hobby.
Well stated Ferg!
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