Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

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Dunc C8
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Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Dunc C8 »

Hi,

Can you please help?

I have a lovely looking new C65 Trident Diver hand wound watch which I recently sent back after having it 3 days, as it seemed to be not running right from point of receiving it.

I wound it as per the handbook, being careful not to overwind etc, and it ran for about 2 hours. Next go about 7 hours and then various run times over next couple of days before I decided not to persevere, as something not right. When winding, the most half-turns (finger n thumb) I got using the crown was about 12, before it feeling like there was resistance that shouldn't be overcome. Handbook say it could wind for up to 20?

CW have looked at it and come back saying 'no fault found' and that 'you'll have to wind it every day' which I'm rather surprised at. I was aware of it being hand wound and not automatic like my other CWs. However, surely I shouldn't have to wind it every few hours, and also get variable run times too, such that each time I go to look at I wonder if it'll have stopped again. I've since asked them what level of inspection and monitoring etc they have atuall done with it, but not heard any reply!! Despite originally being told i'd be a prioriry, having only had it a few days from new.

For those of you with similar movements; would you expect to go all day without it stopping / having to rewind?

I note that the spec on the website, and in the handbook, states that the Seillita movement has a power reserve of up to 42 hours. Would you expect it to get near to that figure once wound fully? Isn't that what that means?

It'd really help me to hear your experience and knowledge on this please, as I don't know what to do next. I love it, but if it's not going to run 'normally' it's not going to be a pleasurable owning experience.

Thanks,
Dunc.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by EddieTheBeast »

Hi Dunc, welcome to the forum.

You should be able to wind it around 30 full turns each morning, it will become extremely hard to wind when it is fully wound. That sould give it enough power to last about a day and a half to 2 days. From what you've said your watch is not correct! Get a replacement or get your money back!

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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Paul Drawmer »

When you say:
"When winding, the most half-turns (finger n thumb) I got using the crown was about 12, before it feeling like there was resistance that shouldn't be overcome."

Do you come up against a definite 'stop' that prevents you winding, or are you just feeling an increase in resistance?
When a handwound watch is fully wound there is a 'stop' felt through the winder that prevents over winding.

If you are fully winding the watch it should run for the 40 hours.
There's always time for one more.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Thermexman »

If you heed Paul's advice regarding the winding, there should be no reason to wind every day!
I have the very same watch and it will run for 46hrs after a full wind. It's nonsense to tell you that it needs winding daily! A quoted power reserve of 42 hrs is exactly that, a "power reserve". Whilst it may not be exactly 42 hrs for every watch, it should be "thereabouts"! Persevere with CS and tell them to cut the BS!
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Dunc C8 »

Thanks for the replies folks; I'll call them again on Monday and take it up with them. I hope they will sort me out, as I do love the look of it in Khaki.

Cheers,
Dunc.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Bident »

Dunc C8 wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:59 pm
Thanks for the replies folks; I'll call them again on Monday and take it up with them. I hope they will sort me out, as I do love the look of it in Khaki.

Cheers,
Dunc.
Hello Dunc.,

Much of what has already been said above has been covered in the following, related thread, but you may still find it helpful: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53392&p=800500&hili ... ng#p800500
Best regards,
John
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by DavecUK »

Thermexman wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:28 pm
If you heed Paul's advice regarding the winding, there should be no reason to wind every day!
I have the very same watch and it will run for 46hrs after a full wind. It's nonsense to tell you that it needs winding daily! A quoted power reserve of 42 hrs is exactly that, a "power reserve". Whilst it may not be exactly 42 hrs for every watch, it should be "thereabouts"! Persevere with CS and tell them to cut the BS!
If he winds at 8:00am, by 8:00am the following day (day 2) it will have done 24 hours. If not wound the next day most watches will stop or lose shedloads of time by 8:00am on day 3, as it's 48hrs since last wind. Hand wound watches with less than 45 hours power reserve really need to be wound every day. Even with 50 hours I would recommend winding every day.

When I was younger all my watches were hand wound (automatics were not so common) and you wound them daily.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by H0rati0 »

DavecUK wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:03 pm


When I was younger all my watches were hand wound (automatics were not so common) and you wound them daily.
Me too and endorse completely. I even try to wind my C8PR every day when I wear it (I admit to sometimes forgetting for a night) partly ritual but partly sensible, better to keep the mainsprings wound (against isochronism) just like an auto.

For the OP, it sounds like you are not winding it enough. About thirty full turns for a full wind with increasing resistance until you reach a definite stop, but do not use a lot of force, winding should be comfortable for the finger & thumb, though you do feel it. Pick a time in the day when it suits you (most choose last thing at night or first thing in the morning) and wind it every day at that time so it becomes a habit.

I hope it works out for you and there is not a genuine problem - which of course is always a possibility, but if CW have looked at it then you should be OK.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Thermexman »

DavecUK wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:03 pm
Thermexman wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:28 pm
If you heed Paul's advice regarding the winding, there should be no reason to wind every day!
I have the very same watch and it will run for 46hrs after a full wind. It's nonsense to tell you that it needs winding daily! A quoted power reserve of 42 hrs is exactly that, a "power reserve". Whilst it may not be exactly 42 hrs for every watch, it should be "thereabouts"! Persevere with CS and tell them to cut the BS!
If he winds at 8:00am, by 8:00am the following day (day 2) it will have done 24 hours. If not wound the next day most watches will stop or lose shedloads of time by 8:00am on day 3, as it's 48hrs since last wind. Hand wound watches with less than 45 hours power reserve really need to be wound every day. Even with 50 hours I would recommend winding every day.

When I was younger all my watches were hand wound (automatics were not so common) and you wound them daily.
You’re splitting hairs now. You know what I meant but thanks for the maths lesson . The OP states that he’s getting varying lengths of power, none of which lasted long enough to reach the next day so CW’s solution about winding daily doesn’t really help.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

It seems that the best way to help the OP here is to try and establish whether he is indeed winding in enough power. If CW have checked and returned the watch stating that there is no problem, my suspicion is that he probably isn’t. I might well be wrong, of course, in which case I apologise.

Not wanting to sound patronising, but we frequently see questions from people who are new to mechanical watches, particularly hand wound ones. They are often a little timid about winding it to capacity for fear of breaking something – understandable, of course. There is a similar thread going on at the moment. It’s easy to be a bit blasé when you have been hand winding watches for decades, as I have, and grew up with them.

Incidentally, I wind my watches daily if I am wearing them over an extended period. Any hand wound watches that I am currently wearing are wound first thing in the morning.
Steve
The half minute which we daily devote to the winding-up of our watches is an exertion of labour almost insensible; yet, by the aid of a few wheels, its effect is spread over the whole twenty-four hours.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

I've just taken my similar Khaki dial C65 Trident Diver, which was stopped in a watch box, and wound it to full.

I think I have a fairly long twist to each wind and it took 27 'winds to full'.

The first half dozen or so winds were very easy to do. It got a bit stiffer over the next half dozen, then remained constant to the 27th, when I felt a clear tightening which suggested any further turning would result in trouble. It was not like turning and hitting a 'stop'. Remember you are twisting a thin metal strip.

As to winding and wearing a handwound watch, either the night before but more usually in the morning, I will generally wind 10 - 15 turns, set the time, then continue winding to full. I will then top up wind to full each evening.

Hope this helps @Dunc C8

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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by TheBeatles »

I too bought a C65 Diver (black dial) in current sale. I mentioned it in another thread, picked up for £278

I agree with Guy, mine feels like his when winding. But unlike Guy, mine came to a complete stop.

I wound it yesterday morning and left it alone until now, it was still running. Rewound it until the stop point.

As an aside, this is my first purchase since the introduction of new packaging. Very impressed.

Watch was in NN sale at 60% off and I was a bit concerned it may show some signs of use at that reduction. However, it is in mint condition. Case and strap etc are completely unmarked.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Dunc C8 »

HI: OP here...Thanks all for the additional replies.

CW still have the watch, so I'll talk to them tomorrow and ask them whether they've found it 'normal' etc and got a decent run time from it, and reiterate what I was finding etc. If they do say it's all looking normal and " ....you just weren't winding it enough..." I won't be offended etc., but would be surprised as I have other wind up watches, but autos, that don't feel like that one through the crown when winding. My C8 auto has a nice feel when winding, and as others have said it gradually increases in resistance but then gets to a clear point where there's a hard stop.

I guess at the end of the day, if they send it back to me and I'm still not convinced and having issues with it, I'll just have to send it back again although I do want to gain confidence first on what level of inspection / monitoring they have done so far etc.

I'll let you know how I get on.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by H0rati0 »

Dunc C8 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:49 pm
HI: OP here...Thanks all for the additional replies.

CW still have the watch, so I'll talk to them tomorrow and ask them whether they've found it 'normal' etc and got a decent run time from it, and reiterate what I was finding etc. If they do say it's all looking normal and " ....you just weren't winding it enough..." I won't be offended etc., but would be surprised as I have other wind up watches, but autos, that don't feel like that one through the crown when winding. My C8 auto has a nice feel when winding, and as others have said it gradually increases in resistance but then gets to a clear point where there's a hard stop.

I guess at the end of the day, if they send it back to me and I'm still not convinced and having issues with it, I'll just have to send it back again although I do want to gain confidence first on what level of inspection / monitoring they have done so far etc.

I'll let you know how I get on.
Autos feel completely different when manually winding as they have a clutch so you should feel no difference form the first wind to whatever, you cannot compare to a manual.

But good luck with resolution, I hope all works out to your satisfaction.
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Re: Please help - query on quoted run times and variable stopping

Post by Dunc C8 »

H0rati0 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:12 pm
Dunc C8 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:49 pm
HI: OP here...Thanks all for the additional replies.

CW still have the watch, so I'll talk to them tomorrow and ask them whether they've found it 'normal' etc and got a decent run time from it, and reiterate what I was finding etc. If they do say it's all looking normal and " ....you just weren't winding it enough..." I won't be offended etc., but would be surprised as I have other wind up watches, but autos, that don't feel like that one through the crown when winding. My C8 auto has a nice feel when winding, and as others have said it gradually increases in resistance but then gets to a clear point where there's a hard stop.

I guess at the end of the day, if they send it back to me and I'm still not convinced and having issues with it, I'll just have to send it back again although I do want to gain confidence first on what level of inspection / monitoring they have done so far etc.

I'll let you know how I get on.
Autos feel completely different when manually winding as they have a clutch so you should feel no difference form the first wind to whatever, you cannot compare to a manual.

But good luck with resolution, I hope all works out to your satisfaction.
Ah thanks, that's good to know; so this may support support of this being 'me' thinking it felt wrong and not winding enough etc.
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