Branding...again

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
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Lawrence
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Re: Branding...again

Post by Lawrence » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:06 am

I'm not so sure there's anything wrong with the CWL branding except for the fact that a very small number of people don't like it.

I would say the numbers of watches sold annually speaks to the branding being accepted (by the majority).

The whole time I have been on the forum people have been commenting on the 'branding' or 'logos' but the company continues to evolve and produce watches that seem to be hugely popular.
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Re: Branding...again

Post by Soporsche » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:11 am

Ive read many many posts on this now and have avoided participating as its a bit pointless in many ways unless directly involved with the business. However as someone pointed out its a discussion forum so here goes, if its boring now dont bother reading on, I have tried to extract my personal opinion re the brand/logo from my comments.
From a pure Marketing perspective its been proven that 'Christopher Ward' is NOT an issue for a brand name (theyve established and grown rapidly). Also, heres just a few watch brands that have long names:
Audemars Piguet.
Vacheron Constantin.
Patek Philippe.
IWC Schaffhausen.
Ulysse Nardin.
Many many more....
Simple challenge is.. CW dont have 100 years of history and association to build reputation and product differentiation so have looked at ways to achieve this, the logo placement/font etc being just some of these... (sometimes referred to as 'disruptive' but actually just a young firm doing things differently to build a business in an established market)..
The product quality, price point and business model have achieved this very successfully but if any sales/customer acquisitions are lost as a result of brand placement on its products its a business issue. Yes i know sales have risen but are they losing some % 'potential' growth because of a simple placement issue?
CW own market analysis and testing can prove or disprove this empirically, forum speculation and opinion cant (i.e. have some customers actually purchased BECAUSE of the modern/different font, brand and left placement? I dont know!
Simply, if top/central/symetrical would the name/logo stop anyone from purchasing and would it open some sales that are not currently being achieved.
Answer: unless you carry out a full scientific market testing and analysis you cant possibly know.
Individual comments and opinion as to whether you personally would/will buy or not based on logo placement are entirely valid from a personal perspective but are individual.
The rest though is speculation, natural and positive if people are invested or interested in a brand or product.. on other watch sites the question might be 'will i or wont I buy a Rolex with diamonds based on perceived image of some customers', or, ' As a grown up I couldnt possibly buy an omega with a cartoon character (Snoopy) on its face' etc.
CWs/watches are our hobby. For CW Holdings its a business, run successfully and not an amateur operation, Im sure they will make the right data driven decisions following appropriate analysis and I look forward to whatever happens in their story with interest!
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Re: Branding...again

Post by Psalty » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:28 am

A watch makes the brand. Not vice versa. If branding were merely a good looking emblem and some nice watches, anyone could pull that off with a little investment capital, but a watch manufactory is much more than that; history, development of its own designs, strong commitment to excellence...those are the things that will tell.

Branding is important inasmuch as a product needs to be identifiable and recognizable, but worrying about the branding outside of the product itself is a mere distraction. Really, if CWard was named Rolex, do you think it would be doing better sales or product development?
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Re: Branding...again

Post by Psalty » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:43 am

Soporsche wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:11 am
Ive read many many posts on this now and...
Agree with the general drift of what you have written.
:wave:
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Re: Branding...again

Post by jkbarnes » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 am

Soporsche wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:11 am
...The rest though is speculation...

...For CW Holdings its a business, run successfully and not an amateur operation, Im sure they will make the right data driven decisions following appropriate analysis and I look forward to whatever happens in their story with interest!
Exactly! I don't mind people expressing personal preferences about the logo and placement - we all have our likes and dislikes. What I do mind is the constant whining about it (let's be honest, that's about what it amounts to at this point) and the arm chair experts telling us how CW ought to be running their business. I get it. You don't like it and won't buy a watch with that logo. Message received. I don't particularly like the C1 or the C5 and I'll probably never buy either of those, but I'm not going constantly bemoan CW's horrible design choices with the latest design of both those watches
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Re: Branding...again

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:36 am

nbg wrote:
timor54 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:28 pm
CW (London) Holdings Ltd. appointed Steve Kershaw, a “marketing consultant”, as a director on the 19th Dec.

There seems to be a gradual restructuring taking place...
I may be wrong, but it looks like it could be this chap.
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/steve-kershaw-4077026
Neil
If you've found the correct chap, Neil, he has an impressive CV and I feel confident that CW will benefit from his involvement in the Company.

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Re: Branding...again

Post by nbg » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:57 am

Soporsche wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:11 am
Ive read many many posts on this now and have avoided participating as its a bit pointless in many ways unless directly involved with the business. However as someone pointed out its a discussion forum so here goes, if its boring now dont bother reading on, I have tried to extract my personal opinion re the brand/logo from my comments.
From a pure Marketing perspective its been proven that 'Christopher Ward' is NOT an issue for a brand name (theyve established and grown rapidly). Also, heres just a few watch brands that have long names:
Audemars Piguet.
Vacheron Constantin.
Patek Philippe.
IWC Schaffhausen.
Ulysse Nardin.
Many many more....
Simple challenge is.. CW dont have 100 years of history and association to build reputation and product differentiation so have looked at ways to achieve this, the logo placement/font etc being just some of these... (sometimes referred to as 'disruptive' but actually just a young firm doing things differently to build a business in an established market)..
The product quality, price point and business model have achieved this very successfully but if any sales/customer acquisitions are lost as a result of brand placement on its products its a business issue. Yes i know sales have risen but are they losing some % 'potential' growth because of a simple placement issue?
CW own market analysis and testing can prove or disprove this empirically, forum speculation and opinion cant (i.e. have some customers actually purchased BECAUSE of the modern/different font, brand and left placement? I dont know!
Simply, if top/central/symetrical would the name/logo stop anyone from purchasing and would it open some sales that are not currently being achieved.
Answer: unless you carry out a full scientific market testing and analysis you cant possibly know.
Individual comments and opinion as to whether you personally would/will buy or not based on logo placement are entirely valid from a personal perspective but are individual.
The rest though is speculation, natural and positive if people are invested or interested in a brand or product.. on other watch sites the question might be 'will i or wont I buy a Rolex with diamonds based on perceived image of some customers', or, ' As a grown up I couldnt possibly buy an omega with a cartoon character (Snoopy) on its face' etc.
CWs/watches are our hobby. For CW Holdings its a business, run successfully and not an amateur operation, Im sure they will make the right data driven decisions following appropriate analysis and I look forward to whatever happens in their story with interest!
Good post. :thumbup:

It’s a forum, so perfectly valid for folk to discuss their own personal likes and dislikes.

Every time I see folk moan about folk that express dislike of the current design language I think get over it! :lol:

For each logo change there have been very vocal dissenters expressing their opinion on the forum. I think that’s fine. I doubt if any of them stood outside CW HQ with placards. :)

I have always viewed the change to the current logo to be a last throw of the dice to try and open up their market to a new segment of watch owners and in new markets.

It takes years to build a successful brand. It seems that CW sell far more watches per year than many far more well known brands (well known to WIS). Hopefully they will become a profitable company as the brand evolves.

Neil
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Re: Branding...again

Post by strapline » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:42 am

jtc wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:05 pm
I wasn't aware of this - clever!
Hi Jon,

Yes,re Elliot Brown, it's clever, strong branding. I think a lot of people don't see the nuance of the crest, I think that it's genius. This post has been hijacked a little and gone off thread. But I still feel branding is just as important as product development, no matter the product. Still, CW is a fairly young company. They seem to be selling watches and constantly increasing the size and scope of their offering. They have their fan base, and they are just one small firm competing for a small slice of what is a huge market, I'm sure.

The most important consideration from a consumer point of view is to 'buy what you like and like what you buy'. I think the discussion begins and ends there...
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Re: Branding...again

Post by Mark Richmond » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:09 pm

I agree branding is a hugely individual thing and there is no reason at all to think CW have got it wrong.

It is also just worth highlighting that they do make watches with the branding at 12 o' clock. (The Sandhurst is one of my favourites, although I do not own one).

What I did buy recently though is the C3 Morgan Chronograph, which again has the branding at 12 o' clock, albeit the Morgan wings rather than the CW logo.

So there are options already if you are not keen on the CW logo at 9 o' clock.

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Re: Branding...again

Post by Molan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:43 pm

I’m a big fan of the 9:00 brand device and don’t like all the clutter at 12:00 that some brands insist on.

I never look at the face of a watch to stare at the company branding. Sure it effects the overall look but I certainly don’t like over-elaborate fonts, crests, shields etc.

Elliot Brown is actually a case in point for me as I don’t like the ones with the brand name and shield directly beneath all sitting at the 12:00 position.

In fact I’m currently sitting here looking at my C65 GMT and thinking how much I like the left hand logo, counter-balanced by the date, small font writing at 6:00 and a lovely clear blue face with the subtle twin flags at 12:00 - looks just perfect to me :)
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