Stiff Winding SH21?

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
Post Reply
MarkingTime
Guru
Guru
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm
CW-watches: 6

Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by MarkingTime »

I've been looking at a few threads re stiff winding of the SH21 movement and wondering what would constitute "stiff".
Being a 5 day power reserve movement, there must be some considerable additional spring power incorporated and so perhaps one should expect extra stiff winding, but then, perhaps that would be overcome in design?
Difficult to know for sure, but my C1 seems very stiff to hand wind, although the rotor seems fine and free to rotate.
I have no other similar watch with which to compare, so I thought I'd canvass opinion on the matter and see if others have any ideas.

User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 23344
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 25
LE-two: 1
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
LE-six: 1
LESeven: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

There is a noticeable difference, to me at any rate, in the effort required when hand winding, between the Hand-wound and Auto SH21.

The automatic, which I've had in two MkII Tridents and currently my C60 Apex, requires a 'firm application' of winding effort; but then being an Automatic the amount of winding I do is nominal. However, I do not rate this 'firm application' as stiff or untoward.

On the other hand, the hand wound SH21, which I've had in a C8 PR and currently my C8 M2.04 LE, is relatively light and smooth as butter; which it ought to be as they need about 20 'winds' per 24hrs to wind up; or 100 winds to full power from stopped.

Guy
C4&W7 BBMF| C5 BOB LE| C5 FLE| C7 MkI 47AD| C7 MkII Harrier| C8 MkI| C8 Reg MkII| C8 M2.04 LE| C8 PR
C9 FLE| C9 Me109 SPC LE| C11 Mak Navy| C20 FLE| C40 x2| C60 K'fisher| C60 FLE x2
C60 Apex| C60 Chrono P'type| C65 S'hurst| C65 GMT| C70 HRDC| C1000

Bungle-ator
Senior Expert
Senior Expert
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:17 pm

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by Bungle-ator »

My C65 bronze (manual wind) was very tight to wind to the extent that it was difficult. It'll sound crazy but I sometimes found it easier to hold the crown and "wind" the watch instead. After I broke it it came back from repair very smooth, it's like a different watch and when comparing to how it was to wind before you would almost think the stem had snapped. It only starts to tighten up now in the last ten to fifteen turns.

MarkingTime
Guru
Guru
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm
CW-watches: 6

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by MarkingTime »

Thanks fellas, that's useful stuff.

My engineering instinct tells me that something isn't right.

DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by DavecUK »

My SH21 had very stiff winding, much more so than I would expect from even a double mainspring and 5 days power reserve. It was so hard to wind I feared the stem would snap, my fingers hurt and it was stiff from 1 day all the way to 4.5 days. It was so stiff I didn't dare wind it fully!

Needless to say the movement had a problem, it failed later with the click spring broken and the power gear train damaged and the clock not autowinding with rotor grind(in what order this happened I am not sure, but suspect the click spring went first). Whether this was related or not to stiff winding, I can't be sure, but it's a hell of a coincidence. The watch also started to lose time heavily at anything below 3 days of wind, so perhaps something was binding up.

I contacted CW a few times before it failed who said the winding was stiff on the SH21, so I left it. After the repair, the winding was exactly as I expected it, firm but not overly hard and easy enough to wind to maximum. Sure it won't be anything like as free as an ETA 2824, Rolex, NH35A etc..but it feels fine. The fact that you are asking the question tells me it's probably not right. Unless this is your first mechanical watch ever....which I doubt.

MarkingTime
Guru
Guru
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm
CW-watches: 6

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by MarkingTime »

Thanks Dave.
Sometimes these things are subjective and it's easy to fall into the OCD side of caution, but this certainly doesn't "feel" right to me. It doesn't help that the crown is quite smooth, it's difficult to get enough grip, which again, shouldn't be the case in my opinion.
It's going back for repair anyway for an additional problem, so hopefully it'll be sorted out then. I only hope it doesn't take as long as my last repaired watch, which was ten weeks without contact.

DavecUK
Expert
Expert
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by DavecUK »

Well even if they jump on it immediately you won't see it for 3 weeks as they will probably regulate it as well and check it. With Christmas that just adds weeks. So yeah, it could take 8-10 weeks. From what you say, it definitely sounds like you have a problem. e.g. my watch is at 4.5 days power reserve and winds easily now (a fairly tactile pleasure), before I wouldn't have tried because the force required would have been so great.

Bungle-ator
Senior Expert
Senior Expert
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:17 pm

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by Bungle-ator »

Whilst my repair had more timescales than brexit they told me "swiss repairs" are 10-12 weeks

MarkingTime
Guru
Guru
Posts: 356
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:19 pm
CW-watches: 6

Re: Stiff Winding SH21?

Post by MarkingTime »

Well, we'll see. This might be another "no phone call to chase" test, but II'd like to think that this won't need chasing or publicly complaining about in another CS failure thread.
I hope for a better outcome.

Post Reply