Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

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IanKelly63
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Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by IanKelly63 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:29 pm

Hi There,

I was lucky enough to get my hands on an Elite 1000 ('#288). However, when I received it, it was running some 11/12s slow per day. I advised CW right away, and I waited a few weeks before returning the watch to see if it might settle down. It didn't, so I sent it in to be regulated.

I go the watch back last week. It is not as slow as it was, but is still losing 6/7s per day.

This is a COSC certified watch, and should run at between -4 and +6 per day. Why would CW return it when it is still very clearly not running as per specification? I shouldn't have to send it back to CW for exactly the same reason I sent it to them in the first place.

What would you advise? Am I being to 'anal' about this whole COSC thing?

Ian
CW - MK II C60 Trident Pro, Mk II C60 Bronze GMT Trident LE, MK III Trident Elite 1000 LE
Junghans - Meister Chronoscope SC LE and Form C Chronoscope
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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by neilj568 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:54 pm

You pay for a COSC certified watch and yes it should run as you stated -4/+6 per day. I would contact them and ask what they intend to do about it.
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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by DavecUK » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:55 pm

It should average out at that fully wound and in 5/6 positions and various temps (with a max variance for each position), I think for 6h or possibly longer, can't remember the detail you can look it up. The critical bit is a full state of wind and not being worn on a wrist or in motion during the tests.

That said 6/7s per day isn't super fantastic but it might be you are relatively inactive and it's not in a full state of mind...there are films that can help ;)

One of the things Rolex Singapore offered me (it was a free service), if after wearing the watch with my wear patterns, activity level and type, if say it lost 3 per day, they would be happy to put it back on the equipment and set it to gain 3 overall from how they would normally adjust it, so it matched the wearer.

If you find it's consistent in it's loss and not isochronism due to being at a low state of wind.....then you could always try asking them to regulate it to gain 2 or 3, from where they set it now. This should only require them to place on a timegrapher and give it plus 3 from whatever it reads. But ensure you test it again (before asking)and manually wind it fully and keep it fully wound then see how it performs..

Always remember it's a mechanical device, when you swing your arm, or move, or knock your arm/wrist, sit with the watch vertical or horizontal more it affects the balance wheel, as does temperature and state of wind.

my own C65 SH21 loses about 1 sec per day when fully wound, but let it get to 3.5 days power left and it goes slower, below 3 days slower still...can be up to 7 or 8 seconds. Surprising considering the large power reserve, but thats COSC for you. My C65 was set correctly on 3rd September and with the running down I mentioned it has lost in total 27 seconds in 15 full days, at least 12 seconds of that was in 2 days where I let the state of wind get very low. Even so less than 2 seconds a day over a long period is still quite remarkable.

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:14 pm

My C60 Trident Elite 1000 was my most accurate mechanical watch to date, running at less than +1sec per day (about 3 sec per week).

As has already been mentioned you ought to have a watch that is within the advertised specification (I presume you are referring to the timing during consistent daily wear, when it should be fully wound most of the time).

Advice? Politely Contact CW and ask them if they will take it back and get it running within specification.

Guy

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by tikkathree » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:29 pm

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:14 pm
My C60 Trident Elite 1000 was my most accurate mechanical watch to date, running at less than +1sec per day (about 3 sec per week).

As has already been mentioned you ought to have a watch that is within the advertised specification (I presume you are referring to the timing during consistent daily wear, when it should be fully wound most of the time).

Advice? Politely Contact CW and ask them if they will take it back and get it running within specification.

Guy

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And you might want to decide beforehand whether you take their view on the minimum period of time they'll want the watch for or whether you're prepared to say "take your time please, just get it right" . Actually I just had a change of heart on that tactic as I'd be rather more worried about your repair/regulation going to the bottom of the in-tray. Teeth-gritting time it seems.
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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by IanKelly63 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:51 am

Thanks Chaps,

Lots of useful information. I particularly liked the film comment, but I won't be doing that!!

I've got another CW watch which is running at +1s per day, so I think my wear pattern is pretty good - generally, a watch goes on my wrist at 0630hrs and stays there until 2300hrs. Plus, I'm quite active.

Personally, I think CWs handling of my issue is boardering on the contemptuous; making a half arsed attempt to regulate my watch and sending it back when it is clearly still out of whack.

I'll get in touch and see what they say.

Cheers!
CW - MK II C60 Trident Pro, Mk II C60 Bronze GMT Trident LE, MK III Trident Elite 1000 LE
Junghans - Meister Chronoscope SC LE and Form C Chronoscope
Marloe - Cherwell x 2 (White and 'Kickstarter Blue LE)
Seiko - SSB031

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by stefs » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:29 am

I wonder where the numbers on the chronometer certificate came from? I would send it back but with a 2 week deadline otherwise refund time. That might focus them to a sensible timescale.
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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by IanKelly63 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:36 am

Hi Paul,

That's a good question re. COSC certificate. I just assumed that something had happened to my watch whilst in transit.

When a watch is regulated, I'd expect a print out from a timegrapher, showing how the watch is performing.

I can't really give CW deadlines; they fail to meet their own!

Ian
CW - MK II C60 Trident Pro, Mk II C60 Bronze GMT Trident LE, MK III Trident Elite 1000 LE
Junghans - Meister Chronoscope SC LE and Form C Chronoscope
Marloe - Cherwell x 2 (White and 'Kickstarter Blue LE)
Seiko - SSB031

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by scooter » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:53 am

It needs readjusting to COSC specifications, simple as that.

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by tikkathree » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:16 am

IanKelly63 wrote:Hi Paul,

That's a good question re. COSC certificate. I just assumed that something had happened to my watch whilst in transit.

When a watch is regulated, I'd expect a print out from a timegrapher, showing how the watch is performing.

I can't really give CW deadlines; they fail to meet their own!

Ian
I'd bet sixpence they dont provide timegrapher evidence and I often wonder if the COSC certificate provided with a new watch isn't actually pertaining to that individual watch.

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I've had a go with most CW models in the true spirit of online buying - get it, try it, keep it or flip it! White C60 Mk2, Black C60 Mk2 GMT and the big blue beast!

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by IanKelly63 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:09 am

I'd bet sixpence they dont provide timegrapher evidence and I often wonder if the COSC certificate provided with a new watch isn't actually pertaining to that individual watch.
But that would be fraud right?
CW - MK II C60 Trident Pro, Mk II C60 Bronze GMT Trident LE, MK III Trident Elite 1000 LE
Junghans - Meister Chronoscope SC LE and Form C Chronoscope
Marloe - Cherwell x 2 (White and 'Kickstarter Blue LE)
Seiko - SSB031

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by what-time-is-it » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:03 am

Probably just a mistake - but the Ombre that I returned (model released late 2018) had a COSC certificate dated from 2015 2014! :shock:
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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:04 am

tikkathree wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:16 am
IanKelly63 wrote:Hi Paul,

That's a good question re. COSC certificate. I just assumed that something had happened to my watch whilst in transit.

When a watch is regulated, I'd expect a print out from a timegrapher, showing how the watch is performing.

I can't really give CW deadlines; they fail to meet their own!

Ian
I'd bet sixpence they dont provide timegrapher evidence and I often wonder if the COSC certificate provided with a new watch isn't actually pertaining to that individual watch.

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Wonder no more Pete. :)

As a rule, when you receive a new COSC certified watch, the crystal sticker will have a serial number on it that will match up to the serial number of the movement; which will then correspond to the serial number of the movement stated on the COSC certificate.

Simples. :eek:

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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by what-time-is-it » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:12 am

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:04 am
tikkathree wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:16 am
IanKelly63 wrote:Hi Paul,

That's a good question re. COSC certificate. I just assumed that something had happened to my watch whilst in transit.

When a watch is regulated, I'd expect a print out from a timegrapher, showing how the watch is performing.

I can't really give CW deadlines; they fail to meet their own!

Ian
I'd bet sixpence they dont provide timegrapher evidence and I often wonder if the COSC certificate provided with a new watch isn't actually pertaining to that individual watch.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Wonder no more Pete. :)

As a rule, when you receive a new COSC certified watch, the crystal sticker will have a serial number on it that will match up to the serial number of the movement; which will then correspond to the serial number of the movement stated on the COSC certificate.

Simples. :eek:

Guy
Agree that's how it should work, but I've had a couple with no sticker despite having the cosc certificate - all depends on how robust procedures are and if they are followed imho.
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Re: Trident Elite 1000 LE - running slowly - advice please

Post by DavecUK » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:41 am

what-time-is-it wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:03 am
Probably just a mistake - but the Ombre that I returned (model released late 2018) had a COSC certificate dated from 2015 2014! :shock:
That can be perfectly normal....it's only the movement that is certified minus hands, face rotor and often date wheel/function. They are not certified after casing, although Rolex do their own extensive checks after casing a watch. Most of my service time was because of these checks.

The movements can then be stored in a climate controlled cabinet (in little plastic boxes) until required. It's pulled out, dial hands and rotor placed on, cased, possibly (hopefully) time checked in 5 positions and then the back put on. That movement might have been assembled years before and part of a large tested batch. Don't for a minute think just because the movement has sat in a cabinet for 5 years that they are going to take it apart, clean, re-oil and reassemble it....that's not going to happen.

Please don't ever think the movement in your watch was COSC and cased just before you got it....although relatively high volume Sellita COSC movements might well be fairly new. It's also why the service intervals are...well I've said my bit about those.

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