60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Kip » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:54 pm

Mikkei4 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:42 pm
A comprehensive post from Kip regarding the myths or truths re. watch servicing and old and new lubricants.

The only problem is that the crux of this topic is what is considered as a change by CW to the length of their warranty BEFORE 1 of their watches is to be serviced. Whether it is said by anybody that it's the watch's owner that decide whether to follow recommendations or not it is CW that have now put their 60month movement warranty into doubt.

BUT they still advertise it as 60/60 which it is not.

That is the crux of this topic.
i agree that the crux of this topic was supposed to be about the 60/60. However, it veered into another area where opinions were being stated and seemed to be getting accepted as facts regarding service. I simply wanted to correct that.

As to the 60/60,I have already expressed my opinion on that so we shall have to agree to disagree.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Kip » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:15 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:55 pm
Kip wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:59 pm
First of all, the average recommended watch service 30 years ago was 2-3 years for a mechanical. Not 5-7 years as has been stated in posts here.
This is not my experience in the UK, when I purchased my Rolex and AP I was told 5-7 year intervals. All watchmakers I ever spoke to over here said the same for mechanical watches and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.
While your experience may not be the norm, if you look at the AP website it currently states that seals should be replaced every 2-3 years and general service every 4-6 years, whether or not the watch is worn. Rolex was 5 years until a few years ago.

Also, the AP warranty is only 2 years with an option to extend to 5.

I suspect the info you were given was the opinions of an AD or individual watchmakers. This just shows you how individual opinions can vary across the industry regardless of a manufactures recommendation.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by MarkingTime » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:22 pm

Service intervals cease to be recommended and become mandated if their omission affects the warranty.

Rolex and APs stated warranty is unaffected by any recommended service interval, those being in excess of the warranty period.

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Lavaine » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:59 pm

A C5 can be had at full retail for CAD $740. After the four year warranty period, I can choose to extend the warranty for another year for CAD $350. This has to be the worst value in the watch world today, considering it is marketed as a 60 month warranty. Perhaps CW needs to add an asterisk under the price showing the actual cost of the watch with a 60 month warranty vs. the included 48 month warranty.

Has anyone heard from CW if they will honour the warranty if servicing is carried out by a third party (who will also provide at least one year of warranty on the movement after service).
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by MarkingTime » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:27 pm

Lavaine wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:59 pm
A C5 can be had at full retail for CAD $740. After the four year warranty period, I can choose to extend the warranty for another year for CAD $350. This has to be the worst value in the watch world today, considering it is marketed as a 60 month warranty. Perhaps CW needs to add an asterisk under the price showing the actual cost of the watch with a 60 month warranty vs. the included 48 month warranty.

Has anyone heard from CW if they will honour the warranty if servicing is carried out by a third party (who will also provide at least one year of warranty on the movement after service).
What would be the point in that (third party service to extend guarantee)?

One service for one years guarantee. How long would you want to continue with that financial outlay? That puts the annual service cost at £200 per year to maintain an indefinite movement guarantee.

In other words, a brand new watch every 3-4 years, whether you need one or not.

If I thought that any watch costing several hundred GBP needed servicing every 3-4 years, I'd steer clear and buy something reliable and if anyone thinks that I believe CW watches are unreliable, I don't, but CW seem intent on trying to prove otherwise at the moment.

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Lavaine » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:46 pm

I have 2 major issues with the change in the warranty. Clarity and transparency:

Clarity - CW changed the warranty with no notice to consumers. There is no indication on the website as to how the change in warranty affects previously purchased watches. By way of example, I recently needed to replace a temperature probe on a thermometer. I went to the warranty page on the manufacturer website, and found a message along the lines of "All products purchased from (company) carry X warranty. Products purchased prior to (date) carry Y warranty". Clear as can be.

Transparency - CW now require that the consumer take additional action (servicing) in order to gain the full effect of the warranty. This is not a normal thing for consumer products. Most consumer products carry a warranty that covers the product for a specified period of time, barring misuse. This is the expectation for consumers for any product unless clearly stated otherwise. Nowhere on the sales pages of the CW website does it mention the need for servicing to maintain the warranty for the full 5 years. You must go the the warranty page to find that information (I will acknowledge that their is a clickable link on the product pages for the 60/60). Another example: I was recently looking at a small kitchen appliance from a well known manufacturer. Right there on the product page "2+1 = 3 years warranty". Click here to learn more. Clicking through you find out that the standard 2 year warranty is extended by another year by registering the product online. If they just stated "3 year warranty" like CW does, I would expect that is the standard warranty, and would not click the link to see what the requirements of the "+1" were. CW lacks transparency in regard to the 60 month warranty.

CW is free to do what they want with their warranty, but they need to be clear and transparent about the warranty, as well as the recent changes.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by MarkingTime » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:02 pm

Lavaine wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:46 pm
I have 2 major issues with the change in the warranty. Clarity and transparency:

CW is free to do what they want with their warranty, but they need to be clear and transparent about the warranty, as well as the recent changes.
Totally agree.
I don't personally believe this to be intended to deceive, but rather a poorly thought out and implemented change.
There does seem to be a recurring theme going on at the moment though.

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Kip » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:09 pm

Sorry, but I disagree.

While it would be perhaps helpful if a change was noted, the warranty is stated in the manuals provided with purchase. That is your warranty. It matters not if the current website warranty states differently. If you bought a watch 3 years ago and it states a 5 year warranty (service recommended, but not required) that is it. The current warranty is easily accessible on the website for new purchases as you have noted.

I am sorry, but as buyers we must assume some responsibility. They are not hiding anything nor making it difficult to locate the warranty information.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Lavaine » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:13 pm

MarkingTime wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:02 pm
Lavaine wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:46 pm
I have 2 major issues with the change in the warranty. Clarity and transparency:

CW is free to do what they want with their warranty, but they need to be clear and transparent about the warranty, as well as the recent changes.
Totally agree.
I don't personally believe this to be intended to deceive, but rather a poorly thought out and implemented change.
There does seem to be a recurring theme going on at the moment though.
I completely agree, no intent to deceive. Unfortunately though, the poorly planned change has contributed, along with the QC issues, to a loss of confidence in the company by many long time customers.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Lavaine » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:16 pm

Kip wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:09 pm
Sorry, but I disagree.

While it would be perhaps helpful if a change was noted, the warranty is stated in the manuals provided with purchase. That is your warranty. It matters not if the current website warranty states differently. If you bought a watch 3 years ago and it states a 5 year warranty (service recommended, but not required) that is it. The current warranty is easily accessible on the website for new purchases as you have noted.

I am sorry, but as buyers we must assume some responsibility. They are not hiding anything nor making it difficult to locate the warranty information.
As you said Kip, agree to disagree. I've posted examples of how other companies manage these sorts of things much better. It would be one thing if you were buying in store, but for an online company, these sorts of things (requirements to maintain warranty) really should be stated clearly prior to purchase. The information is absolutely there on the website, but it isn't on the product page where it needs to be.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by what-time-is-it » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:33 pm

Guidelines for guarantees by the Advertising Standards Authority who oversee UK advertising standards.

https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/gu ... D6vIGZvi71
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Boydesian » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:46 am

My two cents: I own six CWL watches, five of which were bought new. Four have issues. My C60 Trident has a loose movement and dial that noticeably shifts within the case when the crown is pulled out; my Makaira Pro has “mottled” lume on the hands; my C30 chronometer was, in the words of my watchmaker, “shipped without a drop of lubrication on the bearing surfaces”, and my C70VW4 LE has misshapen ends on the leather band. Considering the CS horror stories I’m confronted with here, and my own experience, I would be extremely reluctant to buy any more CWL watches. I’m okay with the watches I have, despite the problems, but CWL would have to bend over backwards QC-wise before I’d even look at another one.
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