60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

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Amor Vincit Omnia
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Thermexman wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:46 pm Under the current rules, would I get a service at 4yrs? No. I’d take the risk in the final and fifth year as the difference is only the price of the part. What is the most expensive part of the movement? After all, that is the worst cost beyond the service cost!
Test case, Steve. My MMXV FLE is approaching four years old. Although not a frequent wearer, is really hasn’t missed a beat. I have been wearing it for the last two days and will probably do so all of this week. It is currently sitting at around +3 s/d.

As things stand, I fully intend to let the five year period expire. Then, if I feel I need to, I can have it serviced locally. Or at CWT, which ever is the more cost effective. If it gets sick in the next 12 months I will take my chances and let you know.

Manufacturers claiming different service intervals for the same movement is basically beyond my understanding.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Lavaine »

So we now have confirmation from CW that the new watch warranty is 48 months. Will they change 60/60 to 60/48? Doubtful. Will they allow owners to service watches independently (as can be done with cars, everyone's favourite analogy)? Doubtful. So let's run the numbers on this:
First 48 months: included
Additional 12 months: $150 GBP ($250 CAD) + shipping 2 ways (at least $100 CAD).
Alternatives: Have my watch serviced locally for ~$150 CAD, with a 12 month service warranty (effectively the same as the last 12 months of the 60/60 warranty), or do nothing, and deal with any issue that arises within the last 12 months on my own, and servicing the watch within a reasonable 60-84 month timeframe. My personal experience is the latter choice will be significantly cheaper in the long run, even if the odd watch needs repair in months 48-60.

CW needs to tell it like it is. New watches now come with a 48 month movement warranty.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Bident »

what-time-is-it wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:12 pm Thanks John, apologies I couldn't find your post but well done for noticing the change at the time.

Looking back at the CW website, it appears the 60/60 page has gone from 5 year guarantee, to 5 year guarantee but we recommend a service every 3-4 years to now insisting on it.
And you as well, Chris, for seeing the corresponding change on the website. I can't understand why it took CW so long to make the site consistent with the manuals that were released several months ago.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by PaulJS »

While it is certainly disappointing that CW feel the need to dilute the warranty, I would make the following observations :

1. "60/60" is a great marketing phrase and catches the attention of potential buyers, so I think it is more about having a catchy warranty headline than actually providing a bullet proof 5 year warranty because...

2. There has been evidence of backsliding on the warranty over the last few years with what is classified as the movement becoming tighter, I.e. Stem failure being excluded.

3. The 60 day return option is the real attractant to on line buyers and the, now notional, 60 month warranty is probably less important because....

4. CW are clearly aiming to go more mass market and aiming at a younger sector as opposed to largely targeting the enthusiast market. This is likely to be an audience with a more throwaway mentality where the question of 4 or 5 years is irrelevant because whatever you buy will be old hat by then anyway.

However, I think that the point they are missing is that, for analogous purposes, they are still the Hyundai of the watch world and need to offer an extraordinary warranty to give people the confidence to part with significant wedge for their higher end models.

Maybe they need a two tier warranty to give the higher end models better coverage?

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by what-time-is-it »

They don't help themselves by making subtle changes without informing customers, then giving contradictory info eg. Trident Mk III handbooks from May '19 showing new info, that's only been updated on the main CW website recently.

All this at a time when general customer service and watch servicing has deteriorated.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by DavecUK »

30 - 40 years ago a watch was serviced every 5-7 years. I know this because I always had mechanical watches. I find it difficult to believe with better manufacturing of modern movements, better QC, and modern synthetic lubricants that the service interval would have decreased. It is complete nonsense.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by peterh »

Apparently, CW is not alone in advising a short service interval:
The absolute majority of other luxury watchmakers tend to stick to a two-year warranty and recommend a 3-year service period – something that we might see many of them change soon in an effort to keep up with Rolex and their out-of-the-blue (and rather under-the-radar) developments.
(https://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-5-ye ... intervals/)

And some suggest that this is indeed to extort a little more money from the customer...
https://www.ablogtowatch.com/watchmaker ... ce-repair/
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by golfjunky »

with off the shelf mass produced movements why are CW introducing such a short service period. it just makes me feel that they are going cheap on something and not confident in their product.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by DavecUK »

peterh wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:16 pm Apparently, CW is not alone in advising a short service interval:
The absolute majority of other luxury watchmakers tend to stick to a two-year warranty and recommend a 3-year service period – something that we might see many of them change soon in an effort to keep up with Rolex and their out-of-the-blue (and rather under-the-radar) developments.
(https://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-5-ye ... intervals/)
Seems like perhaps things are catching up with my experience in Singapore 12 years ago, although they still have a way to go. Everyone took their watch in when there was a problem or it was running slow etc... There was a standard charge and for that any parts required were included. As it said in the second link, there is always often a need for parts, but as Rolex make them or have some made for them, they don't cost Rolex very much. The expensive parts rarely need replacement, normally it's winder cogs, pivots, gears date drivers things like that. If the lube runs dry the jewel doesn't wear the metal component or pivot on the jewel does.

I just wish there would be more reasonableness and transparency. Personally if my SH21 watch is running right, I'll wait until either it isn't or 7 years has elapsed, then I will send it in and pay for the parts that would probably have needed replacement anyway. The modern synthetic lubes should last until then. Is it going to need a whole extra service cost worth of parts....I doubt it. There is also going to be the huge temptation to replace parts at the 3/4 years service anyway...oh this was worn so we replaced it....might have been worn, but might have worked fine for another 5/10 years. Of course they have to replace to give a warranty.

Rolex made a smart move and they know it will make no real difference to the work being done at service time, when you put the movement back together, to replace a worn part with a new part is no harder (possibly easier) and costs peanuts.

Anyone with Sellita movement is fortunately free to go wherever they want and find a competent watch repairer at a good price. The worst that can happen is you run the movement into the ground and ask them to put a new one in.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Mikkei4 »

CW should have been more up-front about this turnaround on their 60/60 guarantee. IMO they snuck it away in the T&C mini/micro statements without making prior owners aware of a change to the warranty on their watches.

That they still advertise "60/60" is (again IMO) mis-leading - I know we should all make sure we read all the small print before and after buying but having a headline "60/60" then in reality making it "60/36-48" is mis-leading new purchasers and is not fair as it's still the 60/60 that grabs the attention.

I have a C60 600 Mk2 Trident bought in Feb 2015 which I intended having serviced at the end of this year., Problem is that it was over 4years old when they changed the basis of length of warranty cover so now probably won't be covered for any fault if I have it serviced before Feb 2020. That is a very significant change to the basis on which I bought the watch. So not much point in having it service now at all as £150 plus potentially any parts would be a significant percentage of the watch's value.

Sadly I can see many of CW's earlier releases becoming throwaways.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by DavecUK »

Mikkei4 wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:49 pmI have a C60 600 Mk2 Trident bought in Feb 2015 which I intended having serviced at the end of this year., Problem is that it was over 4years old when they changed the basis of length of warranty cover so now probably won't be covered for any fault if I have it serviced before Feb 2020. That is a very significant change to the basis on which I bought the watch. So not much point in having it service now at all as £150 plus potentially any parts would be a significant percentage of the watch's value.

Sadly I can see many of CW's earlier releases becoming throwaways.
I can't see the revised terms would apply since you purchased before they were introduced. Personally if the watch is running fine and within spec, wait until 7 years if it stays fine, then have it serviced. If your worried about the cost you can always go to an independent. Worst case is the movement is completely trashed, so just get a replacement movement put it by an independent. They can swap any custom rotor across.

I think some mechanical watches like my Invicta are throwaways, once it stops working well, whenever that may be, it gets tossed. It will never be worth servicing it. With the more expensive watches it's more of a value judgment, that's why It can't be cost effective to have it serviced every 3/4 years as they want. People would be better off flipping the watch every 4 years and repurchasing.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by H0rati0 »

DavecUK wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:48 pm The modern synthetic lubes should last until then.
I see no obvious reason for a synthetic lube to deteriorate purely over time in a watch at all. In an ICE, the problems causing time limited oil deterioration are water, unburnt hydrocarbons and acids from combustion that attack the additives - not problems for a watch. Whilst it is any additives that have a time limit, the oil itself will last practically indefinitely as I understand it.

For sure, in a watch the oil will pick up micro particles from running wear (just as in an ICE) and thus will eventually need to be changed but the oil itself can be recycled and reused. Thus, I postulate that any service interval should be dependant purely on usage and not time - unless there are time limited additives in watch lubes? And further, that the service interval can be much longer than in an ICE, certainly an absolute minimum of five years (this is the minimum shelf life of synthetic motor oils) and in practice much more than that.

It would be most interesting to hear from anybody who understands the chemistry of synthetic oils and their application to watches as I am happy to be corrected in the interest of enhancing knowledge.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by nbg »

^^^^^^ I remember reading this article before. Worth a read.
https://nobswatchmaker.com/blog/art-of- ... atchmaking
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by neilj568 »

DavecUK wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:22 pm I can't see the revised terms would apply since you purchased before they were introduced.
I'm not a lawyer but the terms that existed when the watch was bought form part of your contract with CW and can't be unilaterally altered.

IIRC the terms for my C60 from 2015 or 2016 say a service is recommended so this could be used as leverage for CW not repairing under warranty.

I think I'm done with CW watches.... :(
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by H0rati0 »

neilj568 wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:42 am
I think I'm done with CW watches.... :(
While all this backsliding and service issues are very trying, I think it important to maintain a perspective. CW can still build great value watches, many with excellent design and can, more often than not, still provide good service. Yes there are many inconsistencies, but maybe over time (remember they have a big chunk of change to push things along) they could be ironed out.

I personally will just continue to acquire watches I like and will wear and if CW make the grade the side issues will simply be factored in. To quote an old friend of mine: "there's brown grass everywhere".
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