60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

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60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by what-time-is-it » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:47 pm

The 60 month guarantee is something that CW has been very proud to advertise since it's introduction, but earlier this year some subtle changes were made, bringing into question whether the guarantee was still for the full 60 month period as widely advertised both online and in print.

I can't recall who first noticed it, but it was when the Trident Mk III user manuals were published on the CW website in May, alluding to the fact that a service would be required every 3-4 years. What was quoted in the handbooks contradicted what was published on the website at that moment in time.

The website has now been updated with the new policy and as stated it confirms:
If you have not had your watch serviced at the recommended interval, we will not cover the cost of the repair under warranty.
The website does not confirm when this change in policy was introduced - it may be mentioned somewhere, but I can't see it.

Personally I believe this is now a 'free' 48 month guarantee and you are paying to extend this for the last 12 months by way of a service. Prior to this change if a movement fault developed in month 54 then other than the original purchase cost it was covered by CW with no clause stipulating a service at the owners cost would be required to be eligible for the repair.

I appreciate we have comparisons with cars and other trinkets that require servicing, but two points I'm not a fan of:

- No date confirming when this policy change was introduced and who it will affect
- Whenever I see 60/60 quoted now, I personally believe it should be 60|48 or 60|60* - the asterisk informing the buyer that a service will be required before it's 4 years old.

I can't help but feel the original 60|60 concept especially the 60 months guarantee period was in hindsight too generous and too many watches are failing in the final year. Yes the company can choose to change the terms, but I feel they need to be fair, reasonable and transparent regarding how this is done, from when and who it will affect.

Details on the current 60|60 guarantee can be found here: https://www.christopherward.co.uk/cserv ... -guarantee

Below you'll find a screen capture from June '19 and the latest terms below.

June '19

Image

Sept '19

Image
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Bident » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Hi Chris,

I was the OP that first posted the thread. I was at the time considering purchasing a MK3 C60 GMT and found the online handbook, read it, and was surprised to find the change, thus sharing it on the forum. I’ve since recently purchased a Steinhart Ocean 39 GMT 500, which I feel offers better value and from all the recent problems people have posted in this forum, better quality control as well.

Even though the CW de facto four year warranty is much better than most other brands, I feel the way the change was communicated was poorly done, indeed, not communicated at all really.
Best regards,
John

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by DavecUK » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:09 pm

3 things.

1. With cars to maintain the warranty you have to have them serviced in accordance with manufacturers regulations, so nothing unusual there

2. 3 to 4 year servicing requirements for a mechanical movement is excessive and 5 to 10 years is more normal with the higher end watches often going to almost 10 years e.g. rolex. CW should be 5 to 7 years, especially as these days we have advanced modern lubricants compared to those used 30 years ago!

3. Why does the service not carry a 2 year warranty?

If CW persist with this stupid policy a few things will happen:

Any watch with a Sellita W200 movement (non COSC) will not be worth servcing at all. Simply use until the movement dies 7 - 10 years and then replace the movement at an independent watchmaker. This may even be true of COSC certified Sellita movements after 8 years. For any Valjouz 7750 movement take it to an independent watchmaker every 5-7 years and have it serviced. With COSC Movements, the price of servicing will so outweigh the cost of the watch e.g the latest military COSC line at £795, that it's worth taking it to 7 years and again taking the watch to an independent who will also refinish the case for you.

The independents will give you a cheaper and faster service and a years warranty, some might even give longer. This makes the 60/60 warranty a 60/48 warranty. I cannot understand what drove CW to do this. It looks like the only movement worth having serviced by them is the SH21 and even then I'd prefer to do it at 5-7 years and take the chance it won't fail between 4 and 5.

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by what-time-is-it » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:12 pm

Thanks John, apologies I couldn't find your post but well done for noticing the change at the time.

Looking back at the CW website, it appears the 60/60 page has gone from 5 year guarantee, to 5 year guarantee but we recommend a service every 3-4 years to now insisting on it.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by timor54 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:35 pm

To follow up on the car analogy; to maintain your warranty you are expected to have it serviced in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines. However, legally you are not required to have it serviced by one of the manufacturers main dealers, you can use any ‘suitable’ garage of your choosing.

I’ve not looked on the CW website, only the above posted extract, but that doesn’t say that the recommended now mandatory service must be carried out by CW. Given that they’re only ETA/Sellita movements you could argue that a service undertaken by a reputable independent watchmaker would be more than adequate to validate the warranty.

This would possibly also be cheaper, faster and arguably of higher quality...
Tim

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by DavecUK » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:00 pm

For the sake of a year people won't care and will mentally see it as a 4 years warranty, take the watches to an independent after warranty, in the same way that main dealers are not used once cars are out of warranty. I'm not sure why CW felt this was a road they would have wanted to go down, completely baffled by the decision?

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by H0rati0 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:10 pm

The guarantee has been decreased to 48 months. That is clear.

I agree that 3-4 years service requirement is ridiculously conservative, 5-7 is realistic, particularly as many of us do not wear the same watch 24/7 anyway. Forget the comparison with cars, cars need consumables checking/renewing, watches do not.

48 months may still be generous, but CW have reneged and should be called out for it.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by nbg » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:11 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:09 pm
3 things.

1. With cars to maintain the warranty you have to have them serviced in accordance with manufacturers regulations, so nothing unusual there

2. 3 to 4 year servicing requirements for a mechanical movement is excessive and 5 to 10 years is more normal with the higher end watches often going to almost 10 years e.g. rolex. CW should be 5 to 7 years, especially as these days we have advanced modern lubricants compared to those used 30 years ago!

3. Why does the service not carry a 2 year warranty?

If CW persist with this stupid policy a few things will happen:

Any watch with a Sellita W200 movement (non COSC) will not be worth servcing at all. Simply use until the movement dies 7 - 10 years and then replace the movement at an independent watchmaker. This may even be true of COSC certified Sellita movements after 8 years. For any Valjouz 7750 movement take it to an independent watchmaker every 5-7 years and have it serviced. With COSC Movements, the price of servicing will so outweigh the cost of the watch e.g the latest military COSC line at £795, that it's worth taking it to 7 years and again taking the watch to an independent who will also refinish the case for you.

The independents will give you a cheaper and faster service and a years warranty, some might even give longer. This makes the 60/60 warranty a 60/48 warranty. I cannot understand what drove CW to do this. It looks like the only movement worth having serviced by them is the SH21 and even then I'd prefer to do it at 5-7 years and take the chance it won't fail between 4 and 5.
Difficult to really add anything to that, as it is in my view spot on. :thumbup:

Back in June I completed the online service request process, as I was interested to hear the CW view on service for a watch that I purchased new direct from CW in July 2015.

The detail I provided in the narrative box:
“Regular service, as I have had the watch 4 years from new. However I have worn the watch less than 10 times in 4 years, so not sure if it really needs a service, particularly as it’s still under warranty? What is the warranty period for a watch once serviced?”

I received a prompt response, within a few hours, indicating that a returns pack was being sent to me, but no specific response to the points I had raised.

I followed up with a further email:

“What is the standard service charge for the model in question?

You will note from my original request that I mentioned the watch has been worn less than 10 times in four years and asked if you thought it even needed a service at this stage?

Please also let me know how long the warranty is after the watch has been serviced?

It is only once I have this information that I will be able to determine whether it is appropriate for me to send the watch to you for service.”

I again received a prompt response:

“Thank you for your email.

We do recommend that watches are serviced every 3-4 years to keep them in optimum working condition. This is regardless of the amount of wear time that a watch gets as over time, the lubricants in a watch movement will become viscous and start to congeal. As this is a maintenance service, this isn't covered by the 5 year movement warranty, as this isn't considered a fault.

The cost of a service for this model on our current price list is £150, and all of our repairs come with a 12 month warranty.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Kind regards,”

At the moment I am working on the basis that as I bought the watch in July 2015 I still have the benefit of a 5 year warranty period, even though I have no intention of sending in a well running, 10 times worn, watch for a service. Think I will take the “risk” that the modern lubrications used will not become viscous and start to congeal just yet..... :)

Neil
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by H0rati0 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:20 pm

nbg wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:11 pm

The cost of a service for this model on our current price list is £150, and all of our repairs come with a 12 month warranty.
Translation: to extend the warranty by one year costs £150.
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by timor54 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:50 pm

This is a change of position since the Trident Mk3 I believe?

If you’re the owner of an earlier model in possession of the paper handbook that states a 60 month warranty then I’d guess you’re in a strong position to expect the 60 months to be honoured.

I’m not a lawyer but I’d hazard a guess that an original bill of sale and the paper handbook would constitute pretty strong evidence in a small claims court...
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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by nordwulf » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:00 pm

They need to be clear about:
  • Proof they will need about service history. Any watch shop, jeweler or someone who is handy with tools? Or do they imply CW has to perform the maintenance?
  • Can you service the watch yourself like you can do with cars and still maintain warranty coverage?
  • Is it 3 or 4 years?
  • What about quartz watches? Do they need an expensive service every 3-4 years?
  • Is it retroactive to purchases from before they made this rule?
When you're outside the UK, having a watch serviced by CW takes 2-3 months, about $100 in shipping charges on top of the £150 service cost, possible damage during transit and possible custom/VAT charges in your country again. So not really an option when you can have it done by a local watch maker.

The full 5-year warranty (not just the movement) and 5-8 year service interval on my Omega suddenly appears a lot more valuable. CW movement warranty may be acceptable on a $800 C60 but definitely not on the $4000 C60 Apex.

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by MarkingTime » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:13 pm

I have nothing more to add to that already mentioned (and more eloquently put than I could too).

It would seem eminently sensible to send the watch to an independent watchmaker for service after the four year period that's even if it was felt necessary.

To downgrade an existing warranty benefit by 20% by adding in caveats is hardly the mark of a premium product. If the build quality were not so hit and miss, perhaps CW would have more confidence in their own product, perhaps that is the real issue?

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by nordwulf » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:26 pm

timor54 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:50 pm
If you’re the owner of an earlier model in possession of the paper handbook that states a 60 month warranty then I’d guess you’re in a strong position to expect the 60 months to be honoured.
Not so sure about that.. the handbook of my C60 Mk2 shows to go to their website for warranty details. So they can change that pretty much any time. The handbook doesn't describe any warranty conditions and just a 3-4 year 'recommended' service and not 'required' so that may have some ground to stand on.

Their famous 60/60 comprehensive guarantee became a bit less comprehensive..

2019-09-17_15-19-18.jpg

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by timor54 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:29 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:00 pm
...
I'm not sure why CW felt this was a road they would have wanted to go down, completely baffled by the decision?
Possibly they’ve realised that their business model is screwed up. It’s all very well trumpeting a simplistic ‘3 x capital cost’ model but if you drastically under estimate your operational costs then it destroys your gross profit margin.

If you’re suddenly forced to employ additional support staff to match the increased workload then the choices are fairly simple, increase the product purchase price or reduce your value add offerings to recoup some of those costs.

Selling and supporting mechanical watches is very different from selling toys; and all of a sudden they’ve got a VC shareholder looking over their shoulders and into the books.
Tim

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Re: 60|60 Watch Guarantee - Service Requirement

Post by Thermexman » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:46 pm

This situation doesn’t worry me too much really. Here’s why. I bought a 7 yr old C600 Tri-Tech from a Forum member and it started with the spinning rotor and stiff winder, pretty much straight away.

As I’d never experienced this before, I just persevered with winding it. Eventually, the winder ceased to work. I sent it back for repair and was charged for a service, plus the price of the part. In this case, a ratchet wheel.

Under the current rules, would I get a service at 4yrs? No. I’d take the risk in the final and fifth year as the difference is only the price of the part. What is the most expensive part of the movement? After all, that is the worst cost beyond the service cost!

I’m currently awaiting the returns pack for my C60 Trident which has the dreaded stiff winder now. The 5yr warranty expires on 28th Sept! I started the process rolling 11 days ago! Maybe they’re stalling?

Will they honour the warranty, being as it was bought before the change?

Either way, the price of a new ratchet wheel was only £9.99.
Steve.

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