C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by downer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:40 am

Essex Paul wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:30 am
Not unusual for CW to ship watches with QC problems. It’s rife.
Speaking as a forum contributor rather than a moderator...

I am no CW apologist but I feel some of the rhetoric on this forum is often unfair and frequently exaggerated.

In my mind the word 'rife' suggests something is extensive, universal or an epidemic, and although I have no data, I have never seen any evidence to suggest that's the case.

That's not to say there are no issues, as clearly there are and certainly we appear to have seen a trend of deteriorating CS in recent months, but I can't agree that QC problems are 'rife'.
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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Andy-Smith » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:41 am

I checked all my CW watches and found about 50% were showing evidence of it. Typically leads to the watch running fast (17 sec or so per day).

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Andy-Smith » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 am

I am about to send a C11 back under warranty as the winder is quite stiff. I'm expecting a couple of months time away.

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by A1soknownas » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 pm

downer wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:40 am
Essex Paul wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:30 am
Not unusual for CW to ship watches with QC problems. It’s rife.
Speaking as a forum contributor rather than a moderator...

I am no CW apologist but I feel some of the rhetoric on this forum is often unfair and frequently exaggerated.

In my mind the word 'rife' suggests something is extensive, universal or an epidemic, and although I have no data, I have never seen any evidence to suggest that's the case.

That's not to say there are no issues, as clearly there are and certainly we appear to have seen a trend of deteriorating CS in recent months, but I can't agree that QC problems are 'rife'.
As someone who has experienced issues with quality control (not necessarily customer service) with a brand new purchase, whilst I cannot state that the problems are rife, can we settle on the description of 'entirely unacceptable'?

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Essex Paul » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:38 pm

Ok. Rife is a bit of a harsh word admittedly.
I’ll downgrade it too ....... too often?

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by DavecUK » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:55 pm

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:26 am
As part of the service, CW will check that the timekeeping is within tolerance, -20/+20 sec per day for the C60.

If you would like them to regulate it to the best for your movement they will do so, but may charge.
That's interesting I assumed regulating the watch would be included as part of the service, hard to see how a proper service could be done and the watch regulation/adjustment not performed afterwards as part of the service procedure. Is this definitely correct?...I ask because I am considering purchase of a CW watch in the near future. These are exactly the sort of things I would want to know.

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by maniac_mike » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:03 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:55 pm
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:26 am
As part of the service, CW will check that the timekeeping is within tolerance, -20/+20 sec per day for the C60.

If you would like them to regulate it to the best for your movement they will do so, but may charge.
That's interesting I assumed regulating the watch would be included as part of the service, hard to see how a proper service could be done and the watch regulation/adjustment not performed afterwards as part of the service procedure. Is this definitely correct?...I ask because I am considering purchase of a CW watch in the near future. These are exactly the sort of things I would want to know.
My thoughts exactly lol. If they won't do something to my watch because it's technically "in tolerance", then I'm obviously not going to send the watch to them for servicing. It's common knowledge that any competent watch maker can get an ETA2824 close to COSC timing tolerance during a servicing.

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Essex Paul » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:10 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:55 pm
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:26 am
As part of the service, CW will check that the timekeeping is within tolerance, -20/+20 sec per day for the C60.

If you would like them to regulate it to the best for your movement they will do so, but may charge.
That's interesting I assumed regulating the watch would be included as part of the service, hard to see how a proper service could be done and the watch regulation/adjustment not performed afterwards as part of the service procedure. Is this definitely correct?...I ask because I am considering purchase of a CW watch in the near future. These are exactly the sort of things I would want to know.
I do know that Rolex regulate as part of the service. Admittedly way more expensive though.
But surely CW must regulate as part of their service too? :-k
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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:25 pm

The last service I had was to a 9 year old C5 (SW200-1) that had a sticky rotor and indifferent timekeeping. That was eight months ago and since then it has run faithfully at under +5 s/d. So they must have done something to it.
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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by DavecUK » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:38 pm

Essex Paul wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:10 pm
I do know that Rolex regulate as part of the service. Admittedly way more expensive though.
But surely CW must regulate as part of their service too? :-k
To service a watch properly my understanding is the movement must be dismantled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled and any worn parts replaced. As such it is an absolute requirement to regulate (and adjust as necessary) the watch after such a procedure. I have never heard of a proper service that doesn't do this. Without this you cannot check if the action (amplitude) is low/correct, or and whether the service and assembly was correctly done identifying and rectifying all problems.

In many cases of extreme wear/damage it's often cheaper to simply put in a replacement movement and then perhaps put any custom parts back on...regulation is again what any competent service centre would do because at the very least it can help confirm the movement is OK

I'm happy to be corrected by any watch repairers, but this has always been my experience and it was the first check Rolex Singapore did on my watch while I waited, it actually told them the action was low and there were probably parts that would need replacing (included). When they returned it they had timed it back to COSC standards, but mentioned they would be happy to fine tune it to my usage pattern for free after I had worn it for 2-4 weeks. Admittedly that was a long time ago now, but I doubt things have changed much.

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Craig64 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:42 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:55 pm
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:26 am
As part of the service, CW will check that the timekeeping is within tolerance, -20/+20 sec per day for the C60.

If you would like them to regulate it to the best for your movement they will do so, but may charge.
That's interesting I assumed regulating the watch would be included as part of the service, hard to see how a proper service could be done and the watch regulation/adjustment not performed afterwards as part of the service procedure. Is this definitely correct?...I ask because I am considering purchase of a CW watch in the near future. These are exactly the sort of things I would want to know.
What Guy said makes sense to me. If the watch is checked and found to be accurate within the original specified tolerance (of say +/-20 secs per day, as Guy mentioned), then I would not expect any further adjustment to be done. Unless perhaps it was very close to the outer limits. As a non COSC movement, I definitely would not expect them to try and improve the accuracy close to COSC tolerances, unless paying a good deal more £'s for that procedure.
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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by FloridaPhil » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Nonsense. My local watchmaker regulated my 13 year old (at the time 10 year old) Eta 2824 watch to within 2 seconds per day. He did it as part of the standard service fee which was, if I recall correctly, somewhere in the region of $250.

It's not rocket science and it doesn't take a great deal of time to do. You are not regulating a non-COSC movement in 5 positions - you are just making simple adjustments. It's a shame that the ethos of 'good enough' seems to be in play.
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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by Craig64 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:09 pm

FloridaPhil wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:54 pm
Nonsense. My local watchmaker regulated my 13 year old (at the time 10 year old) Eta 2824 watch to within 2 seconds per day. He did it as part of the standard service fee which was, if I recall correctly, somewhere in the region of $250.

It's not rocket science and it doesn't take a great deal of time to do. You are not regulating a non-COSC movement in 5 positions - you are just making simple adjustments. It's a shame that the ethos of 'good enough' seems to be in play.
I disagree.
Their C60 Tridents from new are expected to be with accuracy of +/-20 seconds per day.
I would consider it perfectly reasonable following a service, to have the accuracy restored to the levels of a brand new model, that is +/-20 seconds per day.
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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by timor54 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:03 pm

DavecUK wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:38 pm
Essex Paul wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:10 pm
I do know that Rolex regulate as part of the service. Admittedly way more expensive though.
But surely CW must regulate as part of their service too? :-k
To service a watch properly my understanding is the movement must be dismantled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled and any worn parts replaced. As such it is an absolute requirement to regulate (and adjust as necessary) the watch after such a procedure. I have never heard of a proper service that doesn't do this. Without this you cannot check if the action (amplitude) is low/correct, or and whether the service and assembly was correctly done identifying and rectifying all problems.

In many cases of extreme wear/damage it's often cheaper to simply put in a replacement movement and then perhaps put any custom parts back on...regulation is again what any competent service centre would do because at the very least it can help confirm the movement is OK

I'm happy to be corrected by any watch repairers, but this has always been my experience and it was the first check Rolex Singapore did on my watch while I waited, it actually told them the action was low and there were probably parts that would need replacing (included). When they returned it they had timed it back to COSC standards, but mentioned they would be happy to fine tune it to my usage pattern for free after I had worn it for 2-4 weeks. Admittedly that was a long time ago now, but I doubt things have changed much.
It begs the question - what exactly do CW undertake when they service an automatic?

If they’re cleaning and checking for/replacing any worn parts, and then lubricating the reassembled movement they must surely be putting in on a timegrapher to see how it’s running. Therefore some basic regulation is a matter of a few minutes tweaking with a screwdriver.

Any less than that wouldn’t seem to qualify as a service...
Tim

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Re: C60 Trident Pro 600 Issues

Post by mvlow » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:46 pm

I sent my C60 Trident Vintage in for a warranty repair at the beginning of the year for a stiff/grinding winding mechanism when manually winding the crown. This issue developed after about a year of ownership. The repair stated on the return invoice was "Clean reverse wheels."

Included with the no charge invoice paperwork was a booklet that showed what was done during the inspection and repair process. Note that on the second page they have checked the box for Movement "Adjust Rate." Also on the third page it shows it was put on a time grapher with a result of +5 and +9. Based on this paperwork it appears if they do a repair to the movement they also adjust the movement to ensure it is within specs.

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