Trident C60 where would it stand?

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Blackdog » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:36 am

Back to the original question.

I don't think Omega really belongs in that list. They are producing some amazing in-house movements lately, and the case/bracelet finishing quality and features they are sporting put them much closer to the top of the medium-luxury bracket. Consider also brand recognition and legacy and they are much closer to the likes of Rolex, IMO. I would put them above Tudor even.

I mean, Tridents are very, very nice. But this is a different level of nice, IMO:
Image

CW should be compared among brands that produce watches with readily-available, standard movements (ETA, Sellita, etc.).
In this segment it is mostly down to the design, case- and bracelet-work quality and finishing. And, of course, customer support.

In this universe I think CW compares really well, and I would put it certainly above Steinhart, and maybe even above Longines. Probably on-par with Oris (IMO, above the 65, but below the Aquis).

This considering a decent CS from CW. Personally I have had a good experience so far. But others may have a different opinion.

More established brands usually transmit the feeling of being more dependable, which may or may not be true.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Mikkei4 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:48 am

^^ Agree with you about Omega in the OP's list. They are head and shoulders above the rest of the list and that Seamaster is a stunning watch.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Blackdog » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:08 am

Mikkei4 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:48 am
^^ Agree with you about Omega in the OP's list. They are head and shoulders above the rest of the list and that Seamaster is a stunning watch.
Thanks !
In a different, much bolder style the 2018 SMPs are also incredible ! There's a nice example in the first page of this thread.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Ringwood » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:23 am

Thank you, that was a helpful and well considered reply and most welcome, thanks again.
0uatiOW wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:59 pm
As a new member, and someone with no experience of CW in their earlier, happier, days, it’s reasonable for the OP to be a little wary of their promises, having read a plethora of complaints over the past several months. What is very telling is that a large portion of the complaining posts are initiated by new members. For some folks, a negative experience is their only CW experience; they don’t have a bank of goodwill built up over many years.

Buying one on spec under the 60/60 arrangement used to be a very sensible approach, for those based in the UK and the EU, but the dispatch of incorrect items, delays in sending out returns packs, difficulties contacting customer services, all of which have been flogged to death on this forum in recent months, are causing many seasoned customers take a breath, and so would it discourage potential new customers.

Ringwood - the 60/60 guarantee is a good way of seeing the item in the metal, and if you change your mind and return the item UNWORN! and undamaged within 60 days, you will get your money back (the process may take longer than it used to; it’s a while since I sent a watch back to CW) but if you are in the UK and use a UK credit card, then the card issuer will, under the Consumer Credit Act, cover any failure of CW to meet their obligations.

Now, back to your question..... I have 2 Bremont 3xx, an Oris Aquis, Oris 65, Tudor GMT (ok, that’s not really a Diver), all of which have a better build quality than my 3 CW C60 MK2s (but not all of them by as much as their price premium). I also have a Magrette Kara (about the same build quality) and a Zelos Mako (slightly lower quality, but still good).

In short, CWs punch above their price level, but they’re not the only ones who do that. I’d put Magrette & Zelos in the same category in that respect.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Ringwood » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:30 am

Thanks my only experience of Omega was a Seamaster Pro 300m with the black dial and sword hands as seen here http://watchuupto.com/watches/10-years- ... fessional/ which I owned for a short time.
A lovely watch but one that I never felt comfortable with.


My inclusion of Omega in this list was indeed a mistake.
Blackdog wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:36 am
Back to the original question.

I don't think Omega really belongs in that list. They are producing some amazing in-house movements lately, and the case/bracelet finishing quality and features they are sporting put them much closer to the top of the medium-luxury bracket. Consider also brand recognition and legacy and they are much closer to the likes of Rolex, IMO. I would put them above Tudor even.

I mean, Tridents are very, very nice. But this is a different level of nice, IMO:
Image

CW should be compared among brands that produce watches with readily-available, standard movements (ETA, Sellita, etc.).
In this segment it is mostly down to the design, case- and bracelet-work quality and finishing. And, of course, customer support.

In this universe I think CW compares really well, and I would put it certainly above Steinhart, and maybe even above Longines. Probably on-par with Oris (IMO, above the 65, but below the Aquis).

This considering a decent CS from CW. Personally I have had a good experience so far. But others may have a different opinion.

More established brands usually transmit the feeling of being more dependable, which may or may not be true.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:23 pm

OK; let me chip in with my, vaguely succinct, view.

First off, taking @Ringwood's original list of;-

Omega Seamaster Pro
Longines Hydroconquest
Tag Heuer Aqua Racer
Davosa Ternos
Certina DS Action Diver
Tissot SeaStar 1000
Steinhart Ocean One
Squale Squalematic 60ATM

. . . and rather than having the watches in a precise pecking order, let me separate them into some groups / categories by quality (just my own opinion naturally).

From the discussions so far it is clear that the Omega will go in the Top Notch category. Its then hard to separate the Longines and Tag as they are good solid watches from long established brands. The Squale (a better watch than I believe the OP perceives), Tissot and Certina are decent enough with the Davosa and Stenhart being OK (other 'Sub' lookalikes of similar quality are available for less). Thus the list will look like;-

Top notch
Omega Seamaster Pro

Pretty damn good
Longines Hydroconquest
Tag Heuer Aqua Racer

Decent enough
Squale Squalematic 60ATM
Certina DS Action Diver
Tissot SeaStar 1000

OK
Steinhart Ocean One
Davosa Ternos

Now, taking the original question, where would I put the C60 Trident?

Well, here I'm going to complicate matters somewhat and say which Trident? Not by specific model but by Mark. Much as this may sound that I'm complicating matters it is really straight forward, as CW up progressively upped their game since releasing the MkI C60 Trident ten years ago in September 2009.

Top notch
Omega Seamaster Pro
C60 Trident Pro 600 Mk3

Pretty damn good
Longines Hydroconquest
Tag Heuer Aqua Racer
C60 Trident Pro 600 MkII

Decent enough
Squale Squalematic 60ATM
Certina DS Action Diver
Tissot SeaStar 1000
C60 Trident Pro MkI

OK
Steinhart Ocean One
Davosa Ternos


Simples :eek:

Guy

PS> On the subject of CW releasing the first C60 Trident ten years ago, come September, this begs the question of will they mark this anniversary with the release of a special / limited edition or two (given that we know the C60 Apex is on its way)?
C20 FLE |C4 |C4&W7 BBMF |C5A MkI |C5 BOB |C6 |C7 MkI 47AD |C7 MkII Harrier |C70 x2
C8 MkI |C8 RegMkII |C8 M2.04 |C8 UTC |C9 FLE |C9 Me109 SPC |C60 K'fisher x2 |C60 FLE x2
C60 Apex |C60 Chrono P'type |C65 Khaki |C65 Sandhurst |C600 x2 |C1000

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Mikkei4 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:41 pm

Blackdog wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:08 am
Mikkei4 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:48 am
^^ Agree with you about Omega in the OP's list. They are head and shoulders above the rest of the list and that Seamaster is a stunning watch.
Thanks !
In a different, much bolder style the 2018 SMPs are also incredible ! There's a nice example in the first page of this thread.
They are certainly that! I tried on the blue/blue a couple of weeks ago against the outgoing version blue/blue. Would have liked to have bought 1 or the other but a bit pointless really as I only ever wear my Speedie nowadays.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Mikkei4 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:57 pm

Guy,

On first reading that's some statement from you putting the Trident Mk3 in your "Top Notch" category alongside the Seamaster Pro.

I've yet to take a trip to the CW showroom to see the Mk3 so can't/won't agree or disagree and therefore I'd like to understand your judgement a little more.

Are you saying that the Mk3 should be considered "Top Notch" because of it's quality for the price OR that it's totally on a par with the SMP for build and component quality even without taking price into consideration OR that it's just so much better than the watches in the other categories that it can go only into the "Top Notch" list despite the Omega being in there also?

Subtle difference in judgements so I hope I've worded this sufficiently to explain the question.

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Blackdog » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:00 pm

Mikkei4 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:41 pm
They are certainly that! I tried on the blue/blue a couple of weeks ago against the outgoing version blue/blue. Would have liked to have bought 1 or the other but a bit pointless really as I only ever wear my Speedie nowadays.
I have been flirting around with the new SMPs, and tried them on over the past few months. I was on the verge of buying the 2018 blue/blue on bracelet not once, but three times !

The problem is that with all this Seamaster Wave Dial hype I re-discovered and renewed my love affair with this old one:

Image

With the SM300 Master Coaxial to quench the new movement thirst it is now a bit pointless...

But enough de-railing the thread ! This is about CW, so a couple of mighty fine watches:

Image

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Blackdog » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:07 pm

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:23 pm
........
Now, taking the original question, where would I put the C60 Trident?

Top notch
Omega Seamaster Pro
C60 Trident Pro 600 Mk3

Pretty damn good
Longines Hydroconquest
Tag Heuer Aqua Racer
C60 Trident Pro 600 MkII

Decent enough
Squale Squalematic 60ATM
Certina DS Action Diver
Tissot SeaStar 1000
C60 Trident Pro MkI

OK
Steinhart Ocean One
Davosa Ternos

Guy
Interesting analysis. But I don't fully agree about the first group.

IMO, the MK3 is indeed better than the MK2. But not so much better to compete in the top leagues... You have to bring more to the table than just a clever redesign around a rather pedestrian movement to play in that field.

I would probably put it on top of the second group. But the gap from there to the top group is huge...

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by 0uatiOW » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:14 pm

Mikkei4 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:57 pm
On first reading that's some statement from you putting the Trident Mk3 in your "Top Notch" category alongside the Seamaster Pro.
...
Are you saying that the Mk3 should be considered "Top Notch" because of it's quality for the price OR that it's totally on a par with the SMP for build and component quality even without taking price into consideration OR that it's just so much better than the watches in the other categories that it can go only into the "Top Notch" list despite the Omega being in there also?.
Good point Mick - I’m reading this thread to be referring to quality in absolute terms. While ‘bang for buck’ is the reason many of a us found CW in the first place, I’m not sure it’s a useful measure in the context of the OP’s question. Taking Guy’s Top Notch pair, would I find myself asking “Shall I buy the SMP or the C60 MK3 as they both offer equivalent value for money?” I don’t think so, but more likely I’d be evaluating watches of a similar quality against each other, and then considering the relative price points. And then I’d ignore all that and buy the one which appeals to my heart, and not my head, if you know what I mean.
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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Caller » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:05 pm

Blackdog wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:36 am
Consider also brand recognition and legacy and they are much closer to the likes of Rolex, IMO. I would put them above Tudor even.
Omega are up there with Rolex and I doubt anyone would put Tudor above them.

But then I have never got on with Rolex sports watches, bar one, and have three Omegas.

And that, OP, is why I said it is of little use to seek to compare as you have received many subjective replies, some I agree with, some that make me cringe. It's up to you who you agree with, but the best option, as others have said, is simply order a CW and send it back if it doesn't represent the quality or value you are seeking.
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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by nbg » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:59 pm

Caller wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:05 pm
And that, OP, is why I said it is of little use to seek to compare as you have received many subjective replies, some I agree with, some that make me cringe. It's up to you who you agree with, but the best option, as others have said, is simply order a CW and send it back if it doesn't represent the quality or value you are seeking.
I agree.

I think it’s simply a case of judging a watch and decide what you think holds the most appeal to you. Having decided it is then a question of “am I prepared to pay this amount for this watch”.

Folk who have watches of the same style at different price points, say a bunch of dive watches, will generally side with which of those they spent most on. Human nature, self validating their own choices. However they are at least able to make a comparison.

For those that haven’t handled or owned all, it tends to be a view that the one they have is up there quality wise with the best and law of diminishing returns etc.. means the more expensive aren’t necessarily worth the extra.

As in all things watch related, my view is that the only aspect it’s generally worth seeking an opinion on from folk on a forum is experience with QC, accuracy and post sale service. A pattern of similar replies helps to form a judgement.

Any other aspects are very subjective and would only hold any weight with me if they were provided by someone I knew personally, who I knew liked and owned similar style and price point watches.

Can’t give a view on the ranking of the watches listed by the OP, as although I do have Mark 1 and Mark 2 Tridents I don’t own any of the watches on the OP’s list.

Neil
Other watch forums of interest:
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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by Craig64 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:52 pm

The replies within this topic have been really quite fascinating. The topic is quite subjective in terms of individual opinions (as has been said). I take the view, that there is no right or wrong answer to the perceived ratings.

I do however think that we need to always bear in mind, that irrespective of actual quality, finish and refinement, those so called top end premium brands, will always command a price point in the magnitude of 10 times that of the lesser known brands.

In respect of the Christopher Ward ranges, I have yet, still to see any alternative brands that match their offerings like for like, combining quality and price.

Guy delivered his own take on this.
I understood where he was coming from.
Regards
Craig

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Re: Trident C60 where would it stand?

Post by MarkingTime » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:34 am

0uatiOW wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:02 pm
MarkingTime wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:16 pm
I have a Tudor Black Bay 36 for quality reference and the fit and finish is not a million miles away. The customer service from Tudor however, is in another league entirely and that forms part of the quality of the whole ownership experience.
To fuel the customer service debate a little, my Tudor GMT spent 7 weeks at Rolex under warranty repair, came back with a badly scratched case, and has been back with them a further 5 weeks, and no word of when it’s coming back, if at all, and in what condition. The big boys have their CS problems too.
There are always exceptions to the rule. I haven't looked, but I strongly suspect that the Tudor forums do not have as many concerned customer posts as CW.

Quality control and customer service at CW is simply not up to the standard that CW marketing imply that their watches are at. It's sloppy.

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