Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by Thegreyman » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:39 pm

It's the mandatory requirement to have it serviced that has changed
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by what-time-is-it » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:48 pm

Agreed - 'we recommend' in the past has changed to 'you must' now. A significant change, which the website, email and marketing appears to have ignored.
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by tikkathree » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:09 pm

Kip wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:03 pm
Wow! I post a few random thoughts and I get accused of making crazy statements, trying to spin this issue favorably and having blind faith in the brand. So be it.
Well, that's the internet and fora for you hahaha!
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by timor54 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:02 pm

It does appear to be rather slippery of CW to quietly change the wording for the Trident Mk3 warranty. At the very least they need to clarify whether it's 3 or 4 years by which it must be serviced and offer an honest explanation as to why they're going down this route.

Mandating that the service has to be done by CW is bad enough with the apparent repair times mentioned in many other recent posts, but if you're one of our non UK brethren you could be missing your watch for many weeks, if not months in would seem. It this situation will CW extended the reinstated warranty e.g. as a 62 month warranty if the service involves a 2 months round trip back to the customer?

Having had a quick browse through some of the online manuals/warranties on the CW website it would appear that the only model where the wording has been changed is the new Trident MK3. All the other manuals I sampled appeared to still have the original wording about a recommendation.

To me this begs the question of do CW intend to retrospectively intend to apply this change to other existing models? Given that the manuals do not have any revision information, a remarkable oversight for what is in effect a contractual document, I wonder how they could go about this.

I just had a look at the manual/warranty/CoA booklet for my C65 Trident Diver which I purchased in Jan 2019. It has the original wording and the CoA on the inside rear cover has been completed with the watch serial no., date of purchase and has been initialled by someone within CW. Whilst my name (the customer) is not included this appears to me a form of contractual document confirming that this serial no. watch has a 60 month warranty with no conditions regarding a mandatory service attached.

If I were still to own this watch after say 55 months and a fault occurred that was not the result of misuse then I would expect it to be repaired under the terms outlined in the handbook signed (initialled) by CW. They would possibly argue, but so would I, and I wonder if CW have thought through the customer ill feeling and appalling publicity that this would entail.
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by iain » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:23 pm

Kip wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:36 pm
From C6 Kingfisher manual (circa 2007)
Finally, don’t forget our CW360° Care Programme allows you to return your watch absolutely free,
for any reason, and with no quibbles, for up to 60 days after purchase and we also guarantee your
movement for up to 60 months, so long as it is regularly serviced. After all, why shouldn’t you enjoy
peace of mind as much as you enjoy your watch?


From C60 Trident Pro Automatic manual (Circa 2009)
2. 60 Month MOVEMENT GUARANTEE
Your watch, at its heart, has a top quality precision engineered Swiss
movement – so it’s very unlikely to give you problems with the minimum
amount of care and attention, including a regular service. We recommend
you return your watch to us every 3/4 years for a service, so our expert
technicians can keep your fine timepiece in the peak of condition.


From C60 Trident Pro 600 manual (Circa 2015)
2. 60 Month movement guarantee
Your watch, at its heart, has a top quality precision engineered Swiss movement –
so it’s very unlikely to give you problems with the minimum amount of
care and attention, including a regular service. We recommend you return
your watch to us every 3/4 years for a service, so our expert technicians can keep
your fine timepiece in peak condition.


From C60 Trident 600 Mk III manual (2019)
60 Month Movement Guarantee
Your watch has a top-quality precision engineered Swiss movement
– but if it develops a movement fault within 5 years, and has been
serviced by us at the recommended interval (within a maximum of 4
years from date of despatch), we will repair it for free under warranty.
I’m going to throw a different angle on this debate into the mix at this point and I am specifically referring to the wording in these extracts from CW documentation provided by Kip.

Seeing how the wording has altered over time anyway, could this simply be a case of CW just amending the statement as a periodic refresh, without fully thinking through the consequences of how it could be interpreted?

This wouldn’t be the first time mistakes have been made in this respect and may actually not be intended as a sneaky way up updating their warranty policy.

It would be disappointing if I am wrong, but without any official word from CW on this we could indeed all be barking up the wrong tree.

Iain

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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by Essex Paul » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:31 pm

Doesn’t need servicing at 3/4 years unless you wear it daily and has a hard life.
Then would you want it going to CW for 4-6 months??

3/4 weeks at a watchmakers in Hatton Garden will do me at 5/7 years. :thumbup:
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by cheddar » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:45 am

iain wrote:
Seeing how the wording has altered over time anyway, could this simply be a case of CW just amending the statement as a periodic refresh, without fully thinking through the consequences of how it could be interpreted?

This wouldn’t be the first time mistakes have been made in this respect and may actually not be intended as a sneaky way up updating their warranty policy.
Someone earlier was remarking that whatever prompted CW’s change on this, they hadn’t run it by their attorneys, and I agree. This seems like a desired policy amendment due to some things they are seeing recently without it having been fully vetted.

Whatever is prompting this, it isn’t good for CW. The 60/60 was presumably instituted to inspire confidence in the consumer. Walking it back to a 48 month + 12 more (minus whatever in our shop) if you pay us to service it does not inspire confidence. When you have people all over the internet saying that modern lubricants should be lasting longer than ever, and when 5 years seems to be the fairly common industry standard for servicing, requiring service at 3-4 years seems to be an admission of an inferior product.

Whatever the intent or the past notices, the effect here seems to be at least to shift the burden of proof: before, even under some of the cited language, CW would have had to show that failure to service the watch or abuse had caused the malfunction after 3-4 years. Now, the customer has to show they paid CW and gave up their watch for 1-6 months to gain their additional 6-11 months of warranty (and perhaps a scratch or two).

This is turning into, at best, another PR misstep for CW, and the first page of this forum is turning into a list of PR missteps. As someone who just bought a first CW on the basis of what had been a solid reputation, I hope this is a momentary glitch and not the new norm.



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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by H0rati0 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:46 am

^^^^^
It is a pity, because up until the beginning of this year or so, CW had a great reputation for service and customer care.
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by Caller » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:22 am

H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:46 am
^^^^^
It is a pity, because up until the beginning of this year or so, CW had a great reputation for service and customer care.
Only by those who didn't follow the forum. It seemed to have become a mantra that CW = great CS. But the writing has been on the wall for some time, certainly before you joined. Some long established members here and multiple CW owners have walked away from both because of their experiences.

But never mind, there is a new younger trendy sales base to replace them with.
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by sproughton » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am

Caller wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:22 am

Only by those who didn't follow the forum. It seemed to have become a mantra that CW = great CS. But the writing has been on the wall for some time, certainly before you joined. Some long established members here and multiple CW owners have walked away from both because of their experiences.

But never mind, there is a new younger trendy sales base to replace them with.
It's definitely a long-standing issue. Individuals at CW are often praised (and quite rightly) but the processes that drive customer care have never been fit for purpose.

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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by McDaWisel » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:53 am

My thought on this:

* No problem for me that they require the watch to be serviced for the full 60 months warranty to apply. Seems reasonable.

* Requiring a service every 3 years seems too frequent. 4 years is OK. 5 would be better. :-)

* CW need to clarify immediately when they want this service done for the warranty to remain valid. Is it 3 years or 4 years? Going back to the car analogy. VW tells me every 15k km or 1 year whichever comes first. Not 15k-20k km or 12-18 months. You need to be clear! I am happy for an approximate suggestion for general servicing, but not if it influence warranty validity.

I would assume that they will most likely fix under warranty if you’re a little late with your service. Probably up to the 5 years...

I would like if they added the option to include the first service with the original purchase of the watch. The same way they offer a spare strap, they could have a box to tick that says “include first service” when adding to cart. Maybe even slightly discounted and maybe with expedited service. Again this works well for car manufacturers. Many sell sevice plans. It’s good for them as they get the cash early and they are guaranteed that you go back to them for the service and don’t go independent. But the service has to be impeccable and fast.

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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by H0rati0 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:29 am

sproughton wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am
Caller wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:22 am

Only by those who didn't follow the forum. It seemed to have become a mantra that CW = great CS. But the writing has been on the wall for some time, certainly before you joined. Some long established members here and multiple CW owners have walked away from both because of their experiences.

But never mind, there is a new younger trendy sales base to replace them with.
It's definitely a long-standing issue. Individuals at CW are often praised (and quite rightly) but the processes that drive customer care have never been fit for purpose.
Well, speaking to my experience (admittedly on the sales side and limited to one year) the customer experience was good and my reading of the forum was that for post sales there was the occasional issue (and every company suffers occasionally) but on the whole that was good too. The number of complaints on the forum since January has dramatically increased.

I agree completely that the processes have been exposed as sadly lacking. The jury is now out on whether that is just growing pains, upfront manufacturing QA or a a combination of both and whether the management team are up to the task.
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by H0rati0 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:46 am

McDaWisel wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:53 am
My thought on this:

* No problem for me that they require the watch to be serviced for the full 60 months warranty to apply. Seems reasonable.
I have to disagree that is reasonable when other manufacturers do not require a service for their 5 year warranty to apply, though of course they have service recommendations. I draw the conclusion from 5 year guarantees becoming more commonplace that service intervals can comfortably exceed that for a well manufactured watch, though of course owners are free to service as frequently as they wish.

The point has also been made that typically a watch that has just been serviced comes back with a 12 month guarantee (though I cannot find CW policy) so with CW's new policy you pay for the last year or so's guarantee twice.

Nor can I agree that the car analogy fits. Cars use many consumables (which of course are not warranted) some with safety implications, watches do not.
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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by McDaWisel » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:04 pm

H0rati0 wrote: I have to disagree that is reasonable when other manufacturers do not require a service for their 5 year warranty to apply, though of course they have service recommendations. I draw the conclusion from 5 year guarantees becoming more commonplace that service intervals can comfortably exceed that for a well manufactured watch, though of course owners are free to service as frequently as they wish.

The point has also been made that typically a watch that has just been serviced comes back with a 12 month guarantee (though I cannot find CW policy) so with CW's new policy you pay for the last year or so's guarantee twice.

Nor do I agree that the car analogy fits. Cars use many consumables, some with safety implications, watches do not.
The car analogy is not 100% perfect that’s true, but it’s the closest I can think of. The seals and oils in the watch are consumables and need regular replacing, but of course don’t have safety implications. I did recently purchase a new boiler that came with a 7 year warranty, but also under the condition that it’s serviced yearly - again to replace seals mostly. I guess there are serious safety implications there too, but these should be separate form the warranty right? Other electronic items like a TV are designed with a limited lifespan in mind... These mechanical watches are supposed to last a lifetime.

Genuine question: do other manufacturers in the sub-1000GBP offer 5 years warranty without requiring service? Or is this just Omega & co?

One more genuine question: Why would a CW watch require more frequent servicing than other brands? Is it the quality of the parts or oils? This would be understandable as the watches are a fraction of the cost of some other brands with similar warranties? Or is there another reason?

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Re: Change in 60 Month Warranty Policy?

Post by nbg » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:16 pm

H0rati0 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:46 am
McDaWisel wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:53 am
My thought on this:

* No problem for me that they require the watch to be serviced for the full 60 months warranty to apply. Seems reasonable.
I have to disagree that is reasonable when other manufacturers do not require a service for their 5 year warranty to apply, though of course they have service recommendations. I draw the conclusion from 5 year guarantees becoming more commonplace that service intervals can comfortably exceed that for a well manufactured watch, though of course owners are free to service as frequently as they wish.

The point has also been made that typically a watch that has just been serviced comes back with a 12 month guarantee (though I cannot find CW policy) so with CW's new policy you pay for the last year or so's guarantee twice.

Nor can I agree that the car analogy fits. Cars use many consumables (which of course are not warranted) some with safety implications, watches do not.
It does beg the question, say you had a CW, purchased new from CW and now almost 4 years old. Worn very, very infrequently, say 4 times a year at most.

Would CW still recommend that the watch was serviced and if they did what reasons would they provide?

I appreciate that under the, for new watches bought under the revised “5 years subject to service warranty” I would know I had to have it serviced to maintain the “5 Year warranty”.

The current CW service warranty is 12 months.

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