Page 3 of 4

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:08 pm
by watchaholic
Essex Paul wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm
watchaholic wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:15 pm
I have heard that it is not recommended to manually wind your auto as there can be wear to the gears, and thought there must be room for improvement in the design if that's the case. Very counterintuitive to have a basic function that is so susceptible to wear that it can't be used. I took one of my autos, Selitta mvmt, no screw down crown, to my local watchmaker and he thought it just needed a little lube on the seal. That being said, I usually just put my watch on first while getting dressed and by the time I am ready to leave the house it is up, running, and ready to be set. If it is a weak point, better to live with it and try not to aggravate the problem.
Never ever heard of that. Of course you can manual wind. You only need a few winds to get it going mind you but now and again I manually wind my 5-day power reserve SH21 up to full charge if dead.
No more wear and tear than a regular manual wind watch.
Hats off to CW and JJ if they have beaten the giants to this fix with the SH21 auto. I am not a watchmaker, but believe this problem does exist, as evidenced by Andy-Smith and his recent repairs.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:34 am
by Bounce
H0rati0 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:58 pm
[quote="Essex Paul" post_id=774420 time=1558013999 user_id=51313
It all depends on who you talk to, some say there is a weakness others scoff, but it's out there and doesn't go away. Sometimes I wonder if watch guys just start these rumours so they can argue - but they wouldn't...surely not....

I confess I do not wind my autos, when I take them out from hibernation I find that two or three shakes held to the ear (so I can hear the rotor turning) is enough for maybe 10 minutes of power, but more than enough for setting. Then I just wear - not purist accuracy but good enough for my hit or miss life. It's what I like about mechanical, the real world, warts and all is simply inescapable.

cheers
[/quote]

I must admit I do manually wind all my automatic watches after they have run down as I find this is the easiest way of setting them (I like to have them spot on as I am obsessive).
I am now concerned I may be damaging my other watches by doing this.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 12:57 pm
by H0rati0
Bounce wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 11:34 am


I must admit I do manually wind all my automatic watches after they have run down as I find this is the easiest way of setting them (I like to have them spot on as I am obsessive).
I am now concerned I may be damaging my other watches by doing this.
Chill - absolutely no panic required :)

There is a good dose of FUD in this at any level, firstly the "problems" concern only ETA 2824 and derivatives with the caveat that on any auto, the idea of manual winding is to kick-start the watch so it can be worn - meaning a few winds, say 10-15. There is no problem with this and it does not cause premature wear.

Equally, there is no point in obsessively winding, or winding beyond 10-15 crown rotations. Most autos (exceptingting long PRs) will be fully charged from fully unwound after 30-40 winds but typically there is no indication of full charge through the crown, as with a manual, because the mechanism declutches. The idea is to half charge the mainspring so that isochronism is not an issue after setting.

OTOH, if one hand winds, it is always possible to have problems with crown, tube and threads (if fitted) on any watch whether the movement is manual or auto, so if an auto, why hand wind any more than you have to? If the worst were to happen (through rough handling or accident etc) with an ETA it's nowhere near the end of the world, ETA parts are ubiquitous and any decent watch maker can sort it for not much money.

Finally, most of the watches in your signature list do not use ETA movements anyway. 8)

cheers

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:35 pm
by Bounce
H0rati0 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:57 pm
Bounce wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 11:34 am


I must admit I do manually wind all my automatic watches after they have run down as I find this is the easiest way of setting them (I like to have them spot on as I am obsessive).
I am now concerned I may be damaging my other watches by doing this.
Chill - absolutely no panic required :)

There is a good dose of FUD in this at any level, firstly the "problems" concern only ETA 2824 and derivatives with the caveat that on any auto, the idea of manual winding is to kick-start the watch so it can be worn - meaning a few winds, say 10-15. There is no problem with this and it does not cause premature wear.

Equally, there is no point in obsessively winding, or winding beyond 10-15 crown rotations. Most autos (exceptingting long PRs) will be fully charged from fully unwound after 30-40 winds but typically there is no indication of full charge through the crown, as with a manual, because the mechanism declutches. The idea is to half charge the mainspring so that isochronism is not an issue after setting.

OTOH, if one hand winds, it is always possible to have problems with crown, tube and threads (if fitted) on any watch whether the movement is manual or auto, so if an auto, why hand wind any more than you have to? If the worst were to happen (through rough handling or accident etc) with an ETA it's nowhere near the end of the world, ETA parts are ubiquitous and any decent watch maker can sort it for not much money.

Finally, most of the watches in your signature list do not use ETA movements anyway. 8)

cheers
Thanks for the info, I must admit I have hand wound my Sub for the last 8 years when it has run down, but as you say that is an in house movement.
My Aquaracer 500m I believe uses the same movement though so I will be a bit more cautious with that one, although I have to unscrew the crown to set the time anyway so the tube & threads will always be at risk.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:04 am
by Baxter
Nothing to worried about. CW quality is impeccable. LOL. Posted this pic ini a friends store front in Texas. Not many were impressed.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:20 am
by H0rati0
Baxter wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:04 am
Nothing to worried about. CW quality is impeccable. LOL. Posted this pic ini a friends store front in Texas. Not many were impressed.
Can happen to any brand. I had a crown fall off a Rolex, but easily sorted.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:49 am
by Bounce
Baxter wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:04 am
Nothing to worried about. CW quality is impeccable. LOL. Posted this pic ini a friends store front in Texas. Not many were impressed.
I had this happen to a previous Omega Speedmaster I owned, stem & crown come adrift.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm
by watchaholic
No matter what brand, these mechanical watches are delicate mechanisms. No matter how tough we may want them to be, they are not G-Shocks. I recently watced in horror as the owner of a coveted new Rolex GMT, while expressing his desire to be sure it remained fully wound, unscrew the crown, jam his index finger between his wrist and the crown, then vigorously run the crown back and forth. He will learn the hard way about something called mechanical sympathy, and then complain about build quality of the watch. #-o

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 7:50 pm
by cheddar
Had to do this repair with one of my 2824-based Hamilton watches. Easy enough to take apart and clean. Gets trickier to decide whether to get the required oils—before long you’re not saving much $. But worth it if you just want to DIY or have access to the oils. Noticed the other day though that the ratchet wheel is missing a tooth—guessing it broke off before I re-lubed the reversing wheels and I didn’t notice it when I disassembled. The watch is keeping good time but I’m thinking of having it serviced next year by Swatch, so I may buy a replacement ratchet wheel and replace it just before sending in, save any upcharge they would add to replace but save me the hassle/cost of having to get the oils needed to lube that wheel when replacing it.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:30 pm
by Baxter
My Rolex crown is a solid piece, so not sure how that could happen to a Rolex.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:14 am
by watchaholic
Just making a point, treat her with a little respect and most likely you will never have a problem.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:58 pm
by Bounce
Well I finally got my Trident back today, it took about 9 weeks altogether.
I have wound it & it certainly feels better so I will keep my fingers crossed.
When I received it back the report shows reversing wheel & movement inspection, working time (effective) time spent 1/2 hr.
Now surely it would take more than half an hour to remove the back, take the movement out & repair/replace a defective reversing wheel or am I reading the repair order form wrong?

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:06 pm
by richtel
Bounce wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:58 pm
Well I finally got my Trident back today, it took about 9 weeks altogether.
I have wound it & it certainly feels better so I will keep my fingers crossed.
When I received it back the report shows reversing wheel & movement inspection, working time (effective) time spent 1/2 hr.
Now surely it would take more than half an hour to remove the back, take the movement out & repair/replace a defective reversing wheel or am I reading the repair order form wrong?
Not really. The autowind bridge is easily accessed after removing the rotor- no need to remove the movement. They could have just replaced the entire autowind set rather than disassemble the old one and washed & relubed the wheels.

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:09 pm
by Essex Paul
^^^^ 9 weeks for 1/2 hours work? How??

Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:05 pm
by Bounce
richtel wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 6:06 pm
Bounce wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 5:58 pm
Well I finally got my Trident back today, it took about 9 weeks altogether.
I have wound it & it certainly feels better so I will keep my fingers crossed.
When I received it back the report shows reversing wheel & movement inspection, working time (effective) time spent 1/2 hr.
Now surely it would take more than half an hour to remove the back, take the movement out & repair/replace a defective reversing wheel or am I reading the repair order form wrong?
Not really. The autowind bridge is easily accessed after removing the rotor- no need to remove the movement. They could have just replaced the entire autowind set rather than disassemble the old one and washed & relubed the wheels.
Ah I see, I didn't think about replacement, but I would still think 1/2 hr is rather quick?
It was actually assessed on 24/3/19 so it has taken since then to repair it.