Dreaded spinning rotor

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Andy-Smith » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:41 pm

I am in the UK, the watch is past the 5 year warranty. I wish to get more into watch maintenance than just refurbishing case/bracelet and changing batteries.

At this stage a try with the auto-wind which is a separate unit from the main movement and does not require either the stem or movement to be removed is attractive to me.

I plan to take photos and will post back here and facebook page.

I won't learn anything if I don't give it a try.

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:48 pm

Sounds like an excellent plan.

My apologies to you if my comment / question last night appeared flippant. It was not intended to be.

Hope all goes well and a write up, with photos will be much appreciated and useful; if only to understand the process.

Guy

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Andy-Smith » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:01 pm

I promised I would list some photos of the process, hopefully they will load OK.

Taking off the auto-wind assembly and then winding the crown showed a lovely smooth action confirming that stickiness in the auto-wind assembly was the problem.

It was a bit fiddly but it went fine.

As Guy says you only want to do this if you have a watch out of warranty and wish to take your pride and joy apart.

I'm glad I went through with it as I learnt how the mechanism works and did get some satisfaction in the process.

Andy
Attachments
IMG_2167.JPG
assembly back in watch case
IMG_2166.JPG
Re-assembled ready for lubrication
IMG_2165.JPG
lubrication fluids
IMG_2164.JPG
Cleaning fluid
IMG_2162.JPG
Watch in box to keep dust out
IMG_2161.JPG
Work tools
IMG_2160.JPG
Drying
IMG_2159.JPG
Close up in the 2nd alcohol rinse
IMG_2158.JPG
Two jars to hold cleaning fluid
IMG_2157.JPG
Assembly out ready for disassembly
IMG_2156.JPG
Rotor removed
IMG_2155.JPG
In the parts bin (cover to keep out dust)
IMG_2153.JPG
Rotor assembly
IMG_2151.JPG
Case back off
IMG_2150.JPG
Case back 6 screws

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Thermexman
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Thermexman » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:33 pm

Well done. Glad it worked out. Always gives satisfaction when these things work out.
Steve.

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Andy-Smith » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:48 pm

This is also a helpful video showing how the auto-wind mechanism is affected by lack of lubrication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dDGe1IxEIM

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Gyelex » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:50 am

That workplace looks satisfyingly clean

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Bounce » Tue May 07, 2019 7:17 pm

Just had an update from Customer Services, my Trident is going to be another 3 weeks with them because of the backlog, I must say I am a little bit disappointed with this news, I was told in the middle of March it would be back on my wrist within 5-6 weeks. :(
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Essex Paul » Tue May 07, 2019 8:46 pm

^^^^ that’s their standard guide. But I’d say more like 8 weeks. I got mine back last month after 9 weeks and got it back scratched, tool marks!
Hope you don’t have similar problems. They can be a bit careless as I’m guessing they’re under pressure because of the back log. Rushing things? They need to recruits technicians if they’re that backed up.
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Andy-Smith » Thu May 16, 2019 1:52 pm

Now completed three watches with stiff manual wind (not recommended to manual wind anyway) due to auto-wind. They are all ETA 2824-2 movements. If you try too much to manual wind you will wear/damage the gears, I could see fine brass powder (like filings) on the work bench after undoing the auto-wind of the last watch - a C11 MSL It is working fine following clean and lubrication and no visible damage to the gears.

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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by watchaholic » Thu May 16, 2019 2:15 pm

I have heard that it is not recommended to manually wind your auto as there can be wear to the gears, and thought there must be room for improvement in the design if that's the case. Very counterintuitive to have a basic function that is so susceptible to wear that it can't be used. I took one of my autos, Sellita mvmt, no screw down crown, to my local watchmaker and he thought it just needed a little lube on the seal. That being said, I usually just put my watch on first while getting dressed and by the time I am ready to leave the house it is up, running, and ready to be set. If it is a weak point, better to live with it and try not to aggravate the problem. Thankfully I have not yet experienced the "dreaded spinning rotor syndrome" . That sounds expensive and tho I would like to be able to do these types of repairs myself, so far my skill set is limited to changing straps. :( :lol:
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Essex Paul » Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm

watchaholic wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:15 pm
I have heard that it is not recommended to manually wind your auto as there can be wear to the gears, and thought there must be room for improvement in the design if that's the case. Very counterintuitive to have a basic function that is so susceptible to wear that it can't be used. I took one of my autos, Selitta mvmt, no screw down crown, to my local watchmaker and he thought it just needed a little lube on the seal. That being said, I usually just put my watch on first while getting dressed and by the time I am ready to leave the house it is up, running, and ready to be set. If it is a weak point, better to live with it and try not to aggravate the problem.
Never ever heard of that. Of course you can manual wind. You only need a few winds to get it going mind you but now and again I manually wind my 5-day power reserve SH21 up to full charge if dead.
No more wear and tear than a regular manual wind watch.
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by H0rati0 » Thu May 16, 2019 2:36 pm

Essex Paul wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm
watchaholic wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:15 pm
I have heard that it is not recommended to manually wind your auto as there can be wear to the gears, and thought there must be room for improvement in the design if that's the case. Very counterintuitive to have a basic function that is so susceptible to wear that it can't be used. I took one of my autos, Selitta mvmt, no screw down crown, to my local watchmaker and he thought it just needed a little lube on the seal. That being said, I usually just put my watch on first while getting dressed and by the time I am ready to leave the house it is up, running, and ready to be set. If it is a weak point, better to live with it and try not to aggravate the problem.
Never ever heard of that. Of course you can manual wind. You only need a few winds to get it going mind you but now and again I manually wind my 5-day power reserve SH21 up to full charge if dead.
No more wear and tear than a regular manual wind watch.
Paul

they are talking ETA 2824 derived designs here, common lore but err on the side of caution. Hopefully it does not apply to SH21 autos.

nik
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Essex Paul » Thu May 16, 2019 2:39 pm

H0rati0 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:36 pm
Essex Paul wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm
watchaholic wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:15 pm
I have heard that it is not recommended to manually wind your auto as there can be wear to the gears, and thought there must be room for improvement in the design if that's the case. Very counterintuitive to have a basic function that is so susceptible to wear that it can't be used. I took one of my autos, Selitta mvmt, no screw down crown, to my local watchmaker and he thought it just needed a little lube on the seal. That being said, I usually just put my watch on first while getting dressed and by the time I am ready to leave the house it is up, running, and ready to be set. If it is a weak point, better to live with it and try not to aggravate the problem.
Never ever heard of that. Of course you can manual wind. You only need a few winds to get it going mind you but now and again I manually wind my 5-day power reserve SH21 up to full charge if dead.
No more wear and tear than a regular manual wind watch.
Paul

they are talking ETA 2824 derived designs here, common lore but err on the side of caution. Hopefully it does not apply to SH21 autos.

nik

I see Nik.
But still, you have to manually wind an auto now and again surely?
In an ideal world you'll wear it every day but on rotation it has to be done. Poor design if that's the case.
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by H0rati0 » Thu May 16, 2019 2:58 pm

Essex Paul wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:39 pm



I see Nik.
But still, you have to manually wind an auto now and again surely?
In an ideal world you'll wear it every day but on rotation it has to be done. Poor design if that's the case.
It all depends on who you talk to, some say there is a weakness others scoff, but it's out there and doesn't go away. Sometimes I wonder if watch guys just start these rumours so they can argue - but they wouldn't...surely not....

I confess I do not wind my autos, when I take them out from hibernation I find that two or three shakes held to the ear (so I can hear the rotor turning) is enough for maybe 10 minutes of power, but more than enough for setting. Then I just wear - not purist accuracy but good enough for my hit or miss life. It's what I like about mechanical, the real world, warts and all is simply inescapable.

cheers
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Re: Dreaded spinning rotor

Post by Essex Paul » Thu May 16, 2019 3:54 pm

H0rati0 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:58 pm
Essex Paul wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:39 pm



I see Nik.
But still, you have to manually wind an auto now and again surely?
In an ideal world you'll wear it every day but on rotation it has to be done. Poor design if that's the case.
It all depends on who you talk to, some say there is a weakness others scoff, but it's out there and doesn't go away. Sometimes I wonder if watch guys just start these rumours so they can argue - but they wouldn't...surely not....

I confess I do not wind my autos, when I take them out from hibernation I find that two or three shakes held to the ear (so I can hear the rotor turning) is enough for maybe 10 minutes of power, but more than enough for setting. Then I just wear - not purist accuracy but good enough for my hit or miss life. It's what I like about mechanical, the real world, warts and all is simply inescapable.

cheers
Well said. :thumbup:
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