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Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 am
by Peacefrog
Hhhmmm....

I will stick my neck out.

I was one of the people who feel that the forum is negative and cliche. The forum runs on the conscious of the majority. If one deviates from the main stream opinion; woe betide.

Christopher Ward make good watches, hence the reason I bought CW watches and then joined the forum. Yet I contibute very little. The reason being; why make the effort when the replies will be negative. At least the Facebook group are friendly. Maybe that is the reason they have a Forum Limited Edition and the CW forum doesn't. Also, maybe that is the reason the Facebook group is growing whilst the forum is dwindling.

In the survey it said "75% strongly dislike the moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions..."

I concur. The expressed opinions, of some of the previous contributors to this thread, only go to reinforce the point that this forum is extremely self-indulgent and passive aggressive. And maybe, just maybe, that is the reason Newbs do not stick around. Which is a shame, because new people with new opinions, may actually help this forum to move forward.

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:39 am
by jtc
Peacefrog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 am
The forum runs on the conscious of the majority. If one deviates from the main stream opinion; woe betide.
I don't think that's accurate at all - I'd be interested to see links to threads where that is/was the case?

On the LE topic, from what I saw of the Facebook LE, it was a very basic change to an existing model with enough interest to sell well. Unfortunately, through extensive "too many cooks" syndrome for the previous FLE, along with probably being a bit naive around final product materials vs design, more recent FLEs have not been a roaring success. Previous incarnations, more similar to the FBLE, were as successful.

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:23 am
by Bident
Peacefrog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 am
Hhhmmm....

I will stick my neck out.

I was one of the people who feel that the forum is negative and cliche. The forum runs on the conscious of the majority. If one deviates from the main stream opinion; woe betide.

Christopher Ward make good watches, hence the reason I bought CW watches and then joined the forum. Yet I contibute very little. The reason being; why make the effort when the replies will be negative. At least the Facebook group are friendly. Maybe that is the reason they have a Forum Limited Edition and the CW forum doesn't. Also, maybe that is the reason the Facebook group is growing whilst the forum is dwindling.

In the survey it said "75% strongly dislike the moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions..."

I concur. The expressed opinions, of some of the previous contributors to this thread, only go to reinforce the point that this forum is extremely self-indulgent and passive aggressive. And maybe, just maybe, that is the reason Newbs do not stick around. Which is a shame, because new people with new opinions, may actually help this forum to move forward.
My 2 cents (pence), for what it's worth (and maybe not even worth that much):

I applaud your willingness to express your honest opinions. As a Newbie myself, I have had a different experience than what others seem to be saying in this thread. Upon purchasing my first CW in August 2018, I casually looked at the various forum topics and gradually became more interested as certain threads caught my eye. In particular, I was drawn by the level of camaraderie shared by members. I have had a very positive experience to date with welcoming forum members, but admittedly, it has been a relatively short period of time. I have read some testy exchanges in certain threads, and to your point, some involve new members although I personally do not feel long time members were disrespectful. But your point remains valid (75% is a big number), and I think if we collectively want the forum to be a remarkable place, then it is incumbent upon us as forum members to be remarkable as well. Being open to constructive criticism, non-defensive, and above all, respectful of others no matter how much we may disagree, I think are steps that bring the forum closer to what everyone would like it to be. Perhaps a tall order to attack, but with apologies to Cervantes, the world has no shortage of windmills to tilt at.

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 am
by Caller
Peacefrog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 am
Yet I contibute very little. The reason being; why make the effort when the replies will be negative.
Are you really suggesting that the mere thought of any negativity, will dissuade you?

Are you sure you're not mistaking negativity for someone disagreeing with your views?

I'm really confused, without examples, of what you are saying here.

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:18 pm
by Mikkei4
Some people on reading what follows on this post might think I'm having a dig at them or being sarcastic but please don't think that. So for the sake of clarity I haven't written any of this to have a dig at you or to be sarcastic. I want to understand more.

Over the last hour I've re-read the last few honestly written posts and they caused me to return to re-read Kip's initial Survey update as I felt that I probably skip-read some of his words on first reading.

As far as the bitching and back-biting is concerned I think this Forum is set up such that this is rare, anybody involved normally apologises and "shakes" on it very quickly and that we have very very few of the disgusting personal attacks that occur on some other Forums I've dipped into and if they do appear they are quickly identified to the OP as un-acceptable and deleted.

However I have to say that even now I don't have a clue what is actually meant by some of the words and phrases used in ..."75% strongly dislike the moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions, the clique and, most notably, CW logo comments and discussions." At this point I will assume that these are not Kip's own words but actual words stated by those that responded to the Survey.

Maybe I'm not as well read as some but what is "passive, aggressive behaviour" please? How would I recognise a "self-indulgent opinion" and differentiate it from 2 people that have differing opinions to each other or expressing their own opinion of a watch or something else? What is the definition of a Forum "clique", where are these "cliques" and are they populated by those people that call each other by their real names? And why shouldn't members post comments about the CW logo? If personally you're fed up with these particular discussions then just don't get involved, bypass them and don't read them.

And, sorry Peacefrog, but I don't understand what you mean by either "the forum is negative and cliche" or "The forum runs on the conscious of the majority" or "If one deviates from the main stream opinion; woe betide."

I consider that the majority of what I've learnt in life has been through or by "example(s)". It's how my brain accumulates awareness and how I know that I won't simply mis-interpret what somebody has written, said or told me because I've asked them to provide an example. So maybe for starters "Peacefrog" wouldn't mind continuing sticking his neck out a short while longer please to expand on the reasons and meaning of each of his short sentences that I've quoted above. Then maybe anybody that believes that were part of the quoted 75% could provide actual Forum posts or situations that were examples of "passive, aggressive behaviour", "self-indulgent opinion" and "the cliques" so I can take these examples on board and try to improve any contributions to this Forum or, of course, provide what might be my alternative opinion without it being self-indulgent.

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:51 pm
by scooter
I have asked time and time again for people to name the people in the so called cliques but nobody has ever responded.

The only members I can think of is 'the clique' of downer and myself who spent time calling out madjam250 (plus 8 or 10 aliases). He responded by calling us a clique.

Would I do it again...you betcha.

scooter

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 pm
by H0rati0
I have said it before, but I fail to recognise the forum as depicted by "75% strongly dislike the moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions..."

Nor do I see any clique. From my experience the forum has been as welcoming as could reasonably be expected without being coddling or irrational.

And I am an AL (After Logo) newbie of 7 months - though I do appear to have sinned by expressing a (firm) opinion.

Note to self: look up "passive-aggressive behaviour"

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:53 pm
by TigerChris
H0rati0 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 pm
I have said it before, but I fail to recognise the forum as depicted by "75% strongly dislike the moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions..."

Nor do I see any clique. From my experience the forum has been as welcoming as could reasonably be expected without being coddling or irrational.

And I am an AL (After Logo) newbie of 7 months - though I do appear to have sinned by expressing a (firm) opinion.

Note to self: look up "passive-aggressive behaviour"
This’ll make you laugh, I’ve just googled it :D

‘Passive-aggressive behaviors are those that involve acting indirectly aggressive rather than directly aggressive. Passive-aggressive people regularly exhibit resistance to requests or demands from family and other individuals often by procrastinating, expressing sullenness, or acting stubborn’

Most chronically passive-aggressive individuals have four common characteristics:

They’re unreasonable to deal with.
They’re uncomfortable to experience.
They rarely express their hostility directly.
They repeat their subterfuge behavior over time.

So, there you go, you learn something new everyday. How it fits into this forum is anybody’s guess?!

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 pm
by Mikkei4
TigerChris wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:53 pm

This’ll make you laugh, I’ve just googled it :D

‘Passive-aggressive behaviors are those that involve acting indirectly aggressive rather than directly aggressive. Passive-aggressive people regularly exhibit resistance to requests or demands from family and other individuals often by procrastinating, expressing sullenness, or acting stubborn’

Most chronically passive-aggressive individuals have four common characteristics:

They’re unreasonable to deal with.
They’re uncomfortable to experience.
They rarely express their hostility directly.
They repeat their subterfuge behavior over time.

So, there you go, you learn something new everyday. How it fits into this forum is anybody’s guess?!
Ah, perfect description of Kevin, Harry Enfield's surly teenager. But it still doesn't explain any connection to this forum. :problem: :?

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:15 pm
by TigerChris
Mikkei4 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 pm
TigerChris wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:53 pm

This’ll make you laugh, I’ve just googled it :D

‘Passive-aggressive behaviors are those that involve acting indirectly aggressive rather than directly aggressive. Passive-aggressive people regularly exhibit resistance to requests or demands from family and other individuals often by procrastinating, expressing sullenness, or acting stubborn’

Most chronically passive-aggressive individuals have four common characteristics:

They’re unreasonable to deal with.
They’re uncomfortable to experience.
They rarely express their hostility directly.
They repeat their subterfuge behavior over time.

So, there you go, you learn something new everyday. How it fits into this forum is anybody’s guess?!
Ah, perfect description of Kevin, Harry Enfield's surly teenager. But it still doesn't explain any connection to this forum. :problem: :?
This forum is just so unfair :lol: :lol:

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:11 pm
by kiter65
I’m completely lost...I don’t read all the posts...the ones I do I either find them interesting/not interesting, informative,funny or boring etc then move on :)
It could be that I’m not intelligent enough to read between the lines or understand the meaning of some of the passive thingy comments :lol:

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:05 pm
by r-macus
I didn't fill it out so I have no say. Much like democracy.

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:19 pm
by jkbarnes
Man, I just composed a lengthy response, just to have my computer sputter and lose it all. Let me start over...

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:30 pm
by jkbarnes
Here's my $.02...
Kip wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:08 pm
What do you dislike or would like less of on/about the forum? (346)

75% strongly dislike the moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions, the clique and, most notably, CW logo comments and discussions.
While this sounds like an alarming and disturbing number (75%!!), consider that that number applies to quite a lengthy list of characterizations - "moaning, bitching, back biting, bickering, passive aggressive behavior, self-indulgent opinions, the clique and, most notably, CW logo comments and discussions." They are all negative for sure, and perhaps some overlap a bit, but they're not all the exact same thing. I'd be curious to see what the response break down is for each characterization. Surely not as high as 75% for each one individually?

Another consideration is that, in reference to those characterizations, I'm sure we WOULD NOT find universal agreement as to representative examples. The challenge of a digital medium like this is that our "communication" lacks all the subtle cues and nuances that help us communicate face to face on a daily basis. It's so easy to misread a comment or read into it what one wants. Who among us has never sent a text or email that was taken by the recipient in a manner utterly at odds with what we intended? It's been my experience on this forum that people are pretty good with clarifying their comments and apologizing where warranted if someone took something the wrong way...most times.

So my take on that 75% comment is that it reflects the limitations of communicating via a digital format as opposed to a problem with the forum itself.

Again, just my $.02. And a big thank you to Kip and the mods for initiating this. Self-reflection is a skill we could do with some more of in this world. I for one appreciate Kip and the mods being willing to turn the spotlight on themselves to a certain extent with this survey. Bravo gentlemen.

Andrew

Re: Forum Survey Results

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:22 pm
by PaulJS
While I am by no means a highly active contributer I think I have been hanging around here long enough to identify the stalwarts and to have seen people come and apparently go.

My simple view is that, like most things in this life, what you get out of it is a product of what you put in.

To illustrate, you would not expect to pitch up to your new local and expect to have everyone hanging off your every word just because you all like a pint. You have to build relationships, find common ground and show a level of mutual respect before you can expect to get further than polite pleasantries.

It's the same here, and I think that the perception of cliques, for example, is just the result of a few members who have been here a while and formed strong friendships. Not wishing to go over the top, but I think this place sometimes operates on a different level to a typical forum.
This is exemplified by a couple of very personal events that have been shared by people in the not too distant past and the responses (and I believe) support in person that these have illicited.

As for my own views via the survey, my only real gripe was that I think things drifted into over zealous moderation and we lost a couple of really great contributors ( for example Reggie 747) and have switched off some others.

I appreciate it can be a fine line for the Mods but it became a bit Nanny State. Hopefully things will be reigned back a bit on this front.
Cheers,
Paul