Sales negativity- the real issue?

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Thermexman
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Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by Thermexman » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:36 am

I was out all day yesterday at my daughter’s, as her fence broke and her heating was down. She’s 150 miles away so I spent 5 hrs driving, to sort the problems out.

When I finally got home at a little after 10pm and saw that there’d been an “archive” clear out, I was curious to hear all about it.

It would seem that there were “issues” with access??? :thumbdown:

As usual, this has been met with protestations from those that “may have actually purchased” and those that merely wanted to “window shop”.

I understand that prototypes and archive models may be sought after and aren’t as frequently come by, so I get it when people are upset by missing out but I’m really struggling with all the negative comments relating to NN and general sales access.

Yes, you’d think it should be less of an issue for CW but hey ho, such is life!

The people who are stating that they’re “falling out of love/respect or whatever, for CW and are going to start “looking” elsewhere because they couldn’t buy a sale watch, puzzle me.

Would you have bought one anyway? Or were you just looking?

Stating that CW don’t care that you couldn’t see the sales page and don’t care about us regulars, is probably only half right!

Lots of us experienced forumites are often heard to say “never pay full price for a CW”.

Why should CW respect that attitude? We are a small percentage of their customers. Yes, they are pleased to have us but can’t run their business solely on our buying power.

From their perspective, we have every opportunity to buy at full price. If we choose to wait for a better deal, then that’s our prerogative. If we subsequently miss out on a bargain, well, boo hoo. We gambled and lost!

Yes, I’ve been disappointed to have missed a particular piece I was craving in the past but I don’t hold that against CW. It wasn’t a personal slight against me! (At least I hope not) :lol:

I do wonder sometimes if it’s more about that feeling that you “missed out” on something, rather than being disappointed about not actually getting the item. If that makes sense?

What I mean is, if CW announced that there were unlimited quantities of these “archive/prototypes/NN” or general sales watches and there was a lengthy opportunity to purchase, I bet that a good proportion of the people actually complaining about their “missed” opportunities, wouldn’t actually be interested in buying.

That feeling that “I’ve missed out” is the real issue here.

We need to reflect on wether our “indignation” is justified?

Just some thoughts delivered with love.
Steve.

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by biggus_richus » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:01 pm

I was fortunate enough to snap up a prototype yesterday. However, in the previous prototype sale, by the time I knew about it, everything had gone. That one seemed to sell out a lot quicker with fewer (no?) technical hitches. Swings and roundabouts.

I do wonder if the prototypes should be auctioned rather than sold, although I suppose that opens up the possibility of entirely different problems.

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by Mikkei4 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:25 pm

Thermexman wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:36 am
Would you have bought one anyway? Or were you just looking?
How would you know if you would have bought anything if you can't get onto the site to see what you might or might not buy? People have to look before buying don't they?

Surely CW have to provide a stable IT environment that can cope with the peaks in required access that they should well know by now from previous good and bad experience of their IT failures. They are after all a web-based business ONLY, unless everybody visits the showroom.

I was able to see the Archive yesterday afternoon about 1400/1430 and was attracted to a couple of the Motorsport prototypes but in the end decided against buying any for a few reasons and instead chose to wait for the possibility of 1 being released in future that I felt I really must have.

I can understand the comments that the indignation against CW is maybe over-stated but why did they release these prototypes a week prior to Christmas? They must be busy enough trying to cope with the level of "ordinary" orders to send out before Christmas, they've had numerous web failures in the recent past so why not learn from that, ensure a stable IT environment for an already peak period and hold off the prototypes sale until both Christmas and any "ordinary" potential January Sale have passed by?

CW watches are good value, the thoughts behind selling NN and prototypes are to be congratulated but if people can't get onto their web-site to see what's on offer then they will get fed up and spend their money elsewhere. This Forum's members were not the only people affected by yesterday's IT issues so maybe the general public feel the same way as those on here that have said that they've had enough of CW IT failures.

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by H0rati0 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:03 pm

Thermexman wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:36 am

Stating that CW don’t care that you couldn’t see the sales page and don’t care about us regulars, is probably only half right!

Lots of us experienced forumites are often heard to say “never pay full price for a CW”.

Why should CW respect that attitude? We are a small percentage of their customers. Yes, they are pleased to have us but can’t run their business solely on our buying power.

From their perspective, we have every opportunity to buy at full price. If we choose to wait for a better deal, then that’s our prerogative. If we subsequently miss out on a bargain, well, boo hoo. We gambled and lost!
Hear hear!

CW are trying to run a business and want to achieve the best prices they can, we are just a small minority of customers and in no way call the shots. If we miss out on a bargain, well that's our problem and nothing to get upset over. Bargains are bargains and by definition not the norm. It would be nice if CW bullet-proofed their IT infrastructure but that again is a cost that has to be taken in context.

Personally, I will only ever want to pay what any watch is worth (preferably less) and that depends on SH values which of course fluctuate so I want a bit in hand if I can. I never buy intending to flip, but at some future time I may want to sell so I feel it only prudent to buy low if possible. If I can't get it at the price I want to pay, I do without - it's only a watch.
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Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by gaf1958 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:04 pm

I simply consider myself lucky to have picked up a watch that I think is a potential/likely keeper from the archive sale. I happened to look in on it kind of early (a rarity for me, given my time zone), when there were still quite a few watches available. I was surprised that in the time it took to purchase my watch, maybe a third of the watches I’d seen there not long before had been sold.

The numbers had then dwindled quite a bit further by the time I’d posted something on the forum.

When I checked back on the forum after a night’s sleep, I discovered that the CW site had been down earlier, but it was back up again, with a few still available.

I’d guess that based on the relatively small number of archive watches offered for sale by that time, that there must have been a lot of window shopping taking place, quite possibly with an intention to buy, or perhaps not. But I, after all, had initially just looked out of curiosity, happened to see a watch I very much wanted, then made the instant decision to buy it. So I’d only been window shopping, as is more common for me, but then turned into a buyer.

I must admit though, that even after purchasing, I checked back a couple of time to see how quickly they were selling, so in part I certainly contributed to unnecessary server load... but then again, it crashed some hours after I was asleep, so I guess I’m in the clear ;)

It’s a valid point that it affects regular customers as well, and at this time of year it may be quite a loss, making the decision perhaps questionable. Or was the cause of the outage simply last minute purchases prompted by the email giving last shipping dates for pre-Christmas delivery... ;)
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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by Thermexman » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:38 pm

Mikkei4 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:25 pm
Thermexman wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:36 am
Would you have bought one anyway? Or were you just looking?
How would you know if you would have bought anything if you can't get onto the site to see what you might or might not buy? People have to look before buying don't they?
Oops! :shock:

Valid point and I have no choice but to concede on that one! :thumbup:
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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by FloridaPhil » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:01 pm

No. The real issue is the same old, really old, (lack of) technology issue.

The blame for any disappointment of their customers falls 100% on the shoulders of an internet retailer which consistently fails to ramp up their bandwidth and infrastucture to cope with demand. At least this time there were no ridiculous claims of a denial of service attack timed to coincide with the commencement of the sale. There are no excuses when these same website problems are encountered just about every single time they have a sale. The blame lies squarely with CW. Let's not pretend it doesn't or try to deflect on to their customers.

Edit: I should add that I have no dog in this fight since I am not currently in the market for any more CW watches.
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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by hughesyn » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:09 pm

The real issue is that we all wanted that Ombré with the red text, but only one of us got it!
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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by Mikkei4 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:05 pm

FloridaPhil wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:01 pm
No. The real issue is the same old, really old, (lack of) technology issue.

The blame for any disappointment of their customers falls 100% on the shoulders of an internet retailer which consistently fails to ramp up their bandwidth and infrastucture to cope with demand. At least this time there were no ridiculous claims of a denial of service attack timed to coincide with the commencement of the sale. There are no excuses when these same website problems are encountered just about every single time they have a sale. The blame lies squarely with CW. Let's not pretend it doesn't or try to deflect on to their customers.

Edit: I should add that I have no dog in this fight since I am not currently in the market for any more CW watches.
Maybe this would be a good subject for discussion at the forthcoming and first CW Road Show/GTG in Edinburgh in January ?

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by StrapMeister » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:41 pm

Mikkei4 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:05 pm
FloridaPhil wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:01 pm
No. The real issue is the same old, really old, (lack of) technology issue.

The blame for any disappointment of their customers falls 100% on the shoulders of an internet retailer which consistently fails to ramp up their bandwidth and infrastucture to cope with demand. At least this time there were no ridiculous claims of a denial of service attack timed to coincide with the commencement of the sale. There are no excuses when these same website problems are encountered just about every single time they have a sale. The blame lies squarely with CW. Let's not pretend it doesn't or try to deflect on to their customers.

Edit: I should add that I have no dog in this fight since I am not currently in the market for any more CW watches.
Maybe this would be a good subject for discussion at the forthcoming and first CW Road Show/GTG in Edinburgh in January ?
Totally agree Phil :thumbup:
..and that's a very good idea Mikkei4.
I'd like to know how much they spent on their advertising campaigns in London - that money should have/would have been better spent sorting out the IT Infrastructure.
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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by 0uatiOW » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:12 pm

If I recall correctly, there a was a recent sale (earlier this year I think) which didn’t seem to be plagued by technical issues - it was the next one after a really bad sale event (during which I remember not being able to load pages for an extended period of time and when I eventually could, I couldn’t place an order), so I concluded that the infrastructure issues were now a thing of the past. I have missed both the last 2 sales, so can’t comment with the benefit of personal experience, but I agree with Phil & Mikkei4. As an etailer, the website is CW’s shop window. Their only one. It’s all very well to excuse the website being down as being caused by an unexpected demand, but the level of interest shouldn’t continue to be unexpected - these are hugely popular events, and they’ve run enough of them to know exactly how popular.
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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by jmarchitect » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:57 am

Indignant about not being able to ponder a potential purchase without being pandered to? Time to undertake a thorough assessment of life’s true issues and ones resilience I feel.

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by gatehealing » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:01 am

I for one began to lose interest in the brand when the new website rolled out insanely flawed in some amateur ways. Things even I knew how to fix. And then some of them stayed messed up, namely the issue with their “Rolex of the internet” website not being capable of withstanding planned surges in sales traffic.

To me, this indicated a lack of effort in the primary sales vehicle they claim to want to master. That lack of effort reflected in the brand as a whole...then the logo thing (but that’s another story—tho it has grown on me on some models, as much as I hate to admit it!).

A company that is internet based that has a recurrent issue of website problems just looks a bit insincere, or somehow not really interested in keeping a top flight sales platform in good working order, especially when they know there’s going to be a spike.

Maybe it’s the IT dpt, maybe it’s the hosting company, maybe it’s the ownership not paying enough attention...I don’t know. But for me, an internet company that cannot master internet uptime during sales reflects poorly on the brand.

So, yes, I agree with the aggravation of those that have missed out. They are entitled to their anger, and are entitled to vote with their wallets by purchasing other brands. I will still buy the occasional CW watch, but I’m no longer shocked when the site glitches during sales and I no longer bother trying to get the purchase to work more than once... I just move on and go buy a new guitar or amp!

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by Mikkei4 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:57 am

jmarchitect wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:57 am
Indignant about not being able to ponder a potential purchase without being pandered to? Time to undertake a thorough assessment of life’s true issues and ones resilience I feel.
Yes at times we probably all get hot under the collar for the wrong reasons particularly in a money/value/materialistic led society. I'm not sure that "indignant" was actually used by any of those that posted on any of the few threads about this subject but I can't be bothered checking. I am sure that CW aren't pandering to anybody though.

Different strokes for different folks so no doubt there will be something that will irk me and possibly you in the future that we shouldn't really get in a twist about.

Thanks for bringing this back to earth though even if just for a few minutes or hours until we proceed on the stress road.

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Re: Sales negativity- the real issue?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:30 am

Mikkei4 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:57 am
Thanks for bringing this back to earth though even if just for a few minutes or hours until we proceed on the stress road.
As John says a sense of perspective is sometimes necessary on the stress road. Yes it can be maddening, as can delays on roads and transport, long queues at the checkout and so many other things. No, it shouldn’t happen if everything runs to plan. But when the world and his wife feel the compulsion to do the same thing at the same time, infrastructures overload.

Yesterday I went into Norwich. I only wanted a couple of things but it was the same story everywhere – very stressed looking people queuing up and spending loads of money in preparation for an “event” still a week away, even after two months and more of constant commercial bombardment. Been there, done that.

Not having family ties and responsibilities CAN be hard, but it was quite empowering in that particular situation to be able to say to myself “I don’t have to do any of that.” My stress point will be Stansted airport on Saturday but, once negotiated, Christmas and New Year should be chilled out. In that respect I consider myself fortunate.

Back on topic...CW Sales seldom come at a great time for me, so I never usually get involved in the “feeding frenzy”. But I feel the pain of the genuine enthusiast who can’t get on or is beaten to an object of desire by the greedy eBayers. I regard it as an opportunity to remind myself that I already have too many watches.

Relax and chill...Peace and goodwill to all. :santaclaus:
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