Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

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tinglau
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Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by tinglau »

I have a C9 Harrison 5-day with an automatic SH21. I was curious as to how many turns it would take to fully wind the watch. I noticed that on about the 200th turn, the second barrel stopped spinning. I then kept on hand-winding it but the first barrel never stopped spinning. After what seemed like forever, I decided to stop as I don't want to damage the watch. I know that the automatic can never be over-wound, but it's not exactly good to manually-winding it every day either. That said, has anyone tried hand-winding their automatic SH21s to full power? If so, how many turns did it take? How did you know it was fully wound?
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by H0rati0 »

I do not have an auto SH21 (yet) but I do have the C8PR with manual wind SH21. That takes approx 100 turns of the crown to fully charge the PR indicator which coincides exactly with meeting resistance at the winding crown, so unless the gearing is considerably different on your Harrison (unlikely) I would say 100 turns would be about right for you too.

Of course with an auto, you never really know because the clutch disconnects the manual wind mechanism when the watch is fully wound, just as it disconnects auto winding.

My rule of thumb with autos is that 20-30 turns should fill the power reserve (assuming about 40 hours) but that does depend a bit. For confirmation I offer up my Seiko SARD12 which has a visual PR meter and a 45 hour reserve, needing 35 turns to fully wind it.

cheers

nik
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Welcome to the forum.

Based on my hand wound C8 Flyer PR (power reserve) it takes me about 20 'winds' per 24 hours to wind i.e. 100 winds to fully wind for the 5 days PR.

There are though possible variances in gearing of the crown and how many revolutions of the crown one of my winds does, compared to yours.

Hope this helps.

Guy

PS > as you have the automatic, as a rule I advocate you only need give it 10-15 winds, to get it going, and wear it after that. The crown & stem on an automatic are not designed with frequent hand winding in mind.

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tinglau
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by tinglau »

Thanks Nik!

1) I don't know if the gearing is considerably different but the crown might be quite a bit smaller than the C8PR.
2) I think Kip mentioned that it took 200-300 winds to go from no power to full-power. I'm not sure if this was a manual-wind or an automatic SH21.
3) You're definitely right about the clutch disengagement. Maybe that's why it never seems like there is significant resistance when you turn the crown.
4) I tried to judge whether it is fully wound by examining the main-spring barrels. If you can see the main spring barrels on your manual wind, do you see them stop spinning once you feel the pressure to stop winding?
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by tinglau »

Thanks Guy!

Yea I definitely don't want to make a habit of needlessly hand-winding an automatic. I guess I was approaching it as a kind of low-risk experiment just in case there will be times when I need to leave the watch for five days and want to top the power reserve off.
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by H0rati0 »

tinglau wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:17 pm Thanks Nik!
4) I tried to judge whether it is fully wound by examining the main-spring barrels. If you can see the main spring barrels on your manual wind, do you see them stop spinning once you feel the pressure to stop winding?
Hmm, I'm not sure that's valid. On the C8PR only one barrel spins, even as the watch reaches fully wound (resistance at the crown). The second one does not move at all, so I am not sure how that works, but it has been remarked on the forum before and mine definitely runs happily for five days after a full wind.

But in any event, Guy is right. In general it's best not to manually wind an auto, though I am not sure if that would apply to SH21 given that it was designed to support both auto and manual winding.

nik
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by igorfiume »

This is from CW

"The SH21 takes 78 full winds of the crown to stimulate a 120-hour full power reserve, and will stay within COSC tolerance for the first three days with no added power/wind"
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by H0rati0 »

igorfiume wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 pm This is from CW

"The SH21 takes 78 full winds of the crown to stimulate a 120-hour full power reserve, and will stay within COSC tolerance for the first three days with no added power/wind"
That sounds right from my experience as I doubt I make a complete turn of the crown for each "wind". Where did you find that info if I may ask and do you know if there is any mechanical difference between the manual wind and automatic movements wrt to gearing and robustness of the manual winding mechanism? I assume not, since why change it unless there is a compelling reason?

thanks

nik
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by igorfiume »

From Andrew Henry,Technical and QC Manager at CW

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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by ItsAliveJim »

200 winds? 78 winds? Have you tried just wearing it – it's an automatic.
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by arzt »

I think that problem is "winds". Everybody has "own winds" and not every "wind" always full. We can't check it.
I need ~180-190 "my own winds" for hand wound SH21. Another owner may need more or less "own winds". So for auto SH21 it is mirage.
igorfiume wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 pm This is from CW

"The SH21 takes 78 full winds of the crown to stimulate a 120-hour full power reserve, and will stay within COSC tolerance for the first three days with no added power/wind"
Thank you.
Am i right that 78 full winds for 3 days? Not for 5 days?
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by igorfiume »




"The SH21 takes 78 full winds of the crown to stimulate a 120-hour full power reserve"





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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by tempusmaximus »

arzt wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:37 am I think that problem is "winds". Everybody has "own winds" and not every "wind" always full. We can't check it.
I need ~180-190 "my own winds" for hand wound SH21. Another owner may need more or less "own winds". So for auto SH21 it is mirage.
igorfiume wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:11 pm This is from CW

"The SH21 takes 78 full winds of the crown to stimulate a 120-hour full power reserve, and will stay within COSC tolerance for the first three days with no added power/wind"
Thank you.
Am i right that 78 full winds for 3 days? Not for 5 days?
Please read this it maybe of help ....viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45038&start=0

And this viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26381&hilit=sh21
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by arzt »

tempusmaximus wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:19 am Please read this it maybe of help ....https://www.christopherwardforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45038&start=0

And this https://www.christopherwardforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26381&hilit=sh21
Thank you, but i know it.
I'm talking not about accuracy, but just about winds for full 5 days. As official or inside info. I know how many "my winds", but official tested not. 78 for full wound?
Anyway my SH21 (both auto and hand wound) are COSC all five days and have power reserve >120h.
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Re: Hand-Winding an automatic SH21

Post by tempusmaximus »

Yes , its 78 for a full wind :thumbup:
Bernie
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