CWL outside investment

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timor54
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CWL outside investment

Post by timor54 »

Spotted this on Twitter. Some interesting numbers on turnover, growth and volumes.

http://www.watchpro.com/exclusive-chris ... te-growth/
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by what-time-is-it »

Interesting article and for more financials, CW filed accounts 19/9.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... download=0
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by timor54 »

what-time-is-it wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:03 pm Interesting article and for more financials, CW filed accounts 19/9.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... download=0
They withheld the Profit & Loss statement from this :?

One related snippet I spotted was they issued an additional 50m shares last year. Dilution for existing shareholders but availability for future shareholders?
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by H0rati0 »

Hmm, not impressive for a 14 year old company, but definitely growing while privately held and funded so why not?

What is interesting is the level of debtors given that CW sells direct via the website, so I suspect significant sales/revenue from elsewhere also.

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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by Thegreyman »

timor54 wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:20 pm
They withheld the Profit & Loss statement from this :?
I review many sets of accounts as part of my job, let me re-assure you this is entirely normal. In fact, in my experience every company which has the entitlement to the exemption to publish a P & L account (through meeting two of three tests on turnover, assets and no of employees) takes advantage of it.
H0rati0 wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:25 pm
What is interesting is the level of debtors given that CW sells direct via the website, so I suspect significant sales/revenue from elsewhere also.

nik
Nik, if you look at the detailed debtors breakdown, trade debtors are only £53k of the total debtor figure and likely includes VAT. Difficult to know what that represents given CW only sell through their website as far as we know.

Also interesting to see the accounts mention (at note 11) that a claim has been received for an infringement of trademarks, the claim is being robustly defended...which I assume is the Jaguar case.
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by jtc »

An additional 50m shares? And there was me thinking penny shares were silly.... :lol:
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by Czechia »

The trade debtors of 53k is more than likely the money owed by customers on the Close Brothers CW finance scheme? Not much to worry about that.

It's a shame they don't show a P&L statement, would have been very interesting to see! But being a private company, I don't blame them for not disclosing.
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by neiltallen »

Not actually looked but based on the no P/L comment, presumably they have presented a balance sheet.

From the P/L reserves number in the bottom of the Balance sheet you should be able to work out the profit after tax - difference between the two years. Granted it wont give you revenue etc, but would be an indicator of growth / decline depending on the result.

(should caveat this by stating i have not looked at a set of Statutory Accounts in over 15 years so my comment above could be wrong) :D
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by Thegreyman »

neiltallen wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:39 pm Not actually looked but based on the no P/L comment, presumably they have presented a balance sheet.

From the P/L reserves number in the bottom of the Balance sheet you should be able to work out the profit after tax - difference between the two years. Granted it wont give you revenue etc, but would be an indicator of growth / decline depending on the result.

(should caveat this by stating i have not looked at a set of Statutory Accounts in over 15 years so my comment above could be wrong) :D
That won't necessarily tell you the whole story as the movement will be net of dividends therefore you can't deduce the profit or loss reliably.
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by H0rati0 »

Thegreyman wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 pm
Nik, if you look at the detailed debtors breakdown, trade debtors are only £53k of the total debtor figure and likely includes VAT. Difficult to know what that represents given CW only sell through their website as far as we know.

Also interesting to see the accounts mention (at note 11) that a claim has been received for an infringement of trademarks, the claim is being robustly defended...which I assume is the Jaguar case.
Patrick

I didn't look beyond the abbreviated accounts, silly me as they give quite a lot of good info. As you allude, the big number in debtors is intra-group, and trade creditors and prepayments are considerably less than that, which I hadn't factored in so nothing to get excited about.

And the Jaguar case is even more interesting as note 11 mentions that CW are mounting a counterclaim. More to this than meets the eye as here we have a private company funded by its owners (real money) versus a giant multinational's staff (salarymen) spending other people's money.

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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by Markornot »

What could concern me when bringing in additional private equity is what can potentially happen as owner shares are diluted. When I say “concern” I mean this to say that I really love how this company has managed to connect so well with their customers and convey a certain level of passion that has a trickle down effect. I know no other company in my personal recent history that is as connected to the customer as CW.

I do not know the particulars of this possibility of an additional private equity offering or the level of investment they might be seeking but over the years I have seen many companies that have reached out for cash infusions for good and bad reasons and most don’t end well...for the customer. (Sometimes for the company as well).

Scenarios that private equity dilutions create can include a mission shift of the company vision as it drastically claws for a larger share of the market, cost cutting measures that can impact quality, and customer perks like generous return policy’s, warranties and other related benefits to the customer that can be seen as a negative short term impact to the ROI for investors.

The worst case events I have observed in private equity dilution is when shareholders now have a seat in the boardroom. They are often looking for short term returns and can become at odds with the CEO/Owner’s long term vision of the company that he/she had nurtured from infancy. This can cause a get deal of tension within the company as the owner struggles to maintain their vision (and control) while being pressured to perform. This often permeates deep into the company itself.

I do not know if any of this realistically applies to this reported situation but it is my own knee jerk thoughts when I read the story.

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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by Lawrence »

^^^

Do you think the existing share holders are going to give up control of the company? I suspect not....
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by neilj568 »

I'm afraid my eyes just glaze over and I lose the will to live when looking at balance sheets etc... :D
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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by nbg »

neilj568 wrote: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:45 am I'm afraid my eyes just glaze over and I lose the will to live when looking at balance sheets etc... :D
I will save you the time!

On the basis of accounts lodged with Companies House to date, the company seems to me to still be a few years off being an attractive investment to an outside investor.

Others may have a different opinion.

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Re: CWL outside investment

Post by Thermexman »

After forensically dissecting the CW accounts and trying to fill in the missing pieces, by which I mean “guess” and coming up with 35 different possible outcomes, Cuthbert finally decided that his time on the toilet, was better spent reading the horoscopes! :yawn:
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