Shocking repair time

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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by downer »

Vansflyer wrote:[
I get the rationale but given it's a x week turn around time if the companies (not just CW) trained up 50% more watch techs it would reduce the time waiting by 50%. 6 weeks becomes 3, 8 becomes 4... etc. That must then give enough of a buffer when times get less busy?
If you assume a constant level of demand and permanently add 50% more resource, it would not take many weeks before you had too much resource. That's really the point I'm trying to make. :D
Vansflyer wrote: I love CW.... I really do and so far haven't needed service attention but can say for sure my experience with "other brands" makes me think very carefully if I will buy another watch from them based upon service experience. FYI Rolex were the worst for sure!
Many years go I was trained to think.. "sales sells the first one, the service afterwards sells the rest".
Can't argue with the logic - although I think it starts with being up-front with what can be achieved (ie telling the truth about the lead-time) and then delivering consistently and reliably against that promise. To me, that is more important than out-and-out speed of service.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by DISJT »

I have to say that the 2 watches I've sent back to CW for warranty repairs were just replaced completely with minimal delay.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by 0uatiOW »

downer wrote:
In the end, the most cost-effective model is to define and run a "full" capacity and accept a given level of "backlog", which acts as the buffer for fluctuations in demand.
That may be true but the most successful companies aren’t always the most cost-effective, and in order to square the curve a little, some operate at slightly under-capacity for some of the year, and at full capacity at another times, when demand is at a peak. In this case, the pay off in happy customers could be tangible. We all realise that things go wrong occasionally; you have to accept that sometimes, but the manner in which issues are addressed makes the difference between a repeat order and a dissatisfied customer.

In my experience, and from what I have read, CW is usually highly praised for their customer service, and it’s a shame to hear / see otherwise. If a 6 week service time is the industry norm, then here’s a clear-cut opportunity for differentiation, especially so for warranty repairs where making the customer’s frustration at receiving a faulty product as short as possible should be paramount.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by gaf1958 »

Vansflyer wrote:I get the rationale but given it's a x week turn around time if the companies (not just CW) trained up 50% more watch techs it would reduce the time waiting by 50%. 6 weeks becomes 3, 8 becomes 4... etc. That must then give enough of a buffer when times get less busy?
All else being equal, it would require a doubling of the number of watchmakers (100% more) to reduce wait times by half (50%); by extension 4 times as many staff would cut wait times by 75%. That requires space, equipment, training and supposes the availability of trained staff - something that I understand is in short supply in recent times. It also adds to the bottom line, possibly making the product slightly more expensive.

I’m not saying that it shouldn’t happen, but I suspect that to reduce times is, unfortunately, going to take a bit longer until the supply of suitably qualified people increases.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by nordwulf »

gaf1958 wrote:
Vansflyer wrote:I get the rationale but given it's a x week turn around time if the companies (not just CW) trained up 50% more watch techs it would reduce the time waiting by 50%. 6 weeks becomes 3, 8 becomes 4... etc. That must then give enough of a buffer when times get less busy?
All else being equal, it would require a doubling of the number of watchmakers (100% more) to reduce wait times by half (50%); by extension 4 times as many staff would cut wait times by 75%. That requires space, equipment, training and supposes the availability of trained staff - something that I understand is in short supply in recent times. It also adds to the bottom line, possibly making the product slightly more expensive.

I’m not saying that it shouldn’t happen, but I suspect that to reduce times is, unfortunately, going to take a bit longer until the supply of suitably qualified people increases.
They wouldn't have to hire any more people if the number of watches for repair remain the same over time. If there is always a 5 week wait time for them to even start with the repair and 2 weeks to get everything done, they just have to put in some overtime to get rid of that 5 week backlog. So with the wait time gone, the watch repair will start a few days after arrival.

I had manufacturer warranty repair done on an Eterna and Alpina in the USA and both only took 2 weeks. Imagine taking your car in for repair and being told to come back in 6 weeks. The watch business in Europe seems to be set in its old slow ways and there simply is no excuse for that anymore. But I guess when everybody says 'that's just normal', nothing will change. Or you could be a disruptive company and change that.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by Kent_H »

I've seen a pricey swiss of mine go in for over 12 weeks... I've got a Seiko Pogue in the hands of a Master atm and it's been about 5/6 weeks. Sometimes you just have to be patient for the things that are worth waiting for.

That said, I feel your pain well enough that I wouldn't send my watch back for anything short of complete failure.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by OllyW »

nordwulf wrote:The watch business in Europe seems to be set in its old slow ways and there simply is no excuse for that anymore. But I guess when everybody says 'that's just normal', nothing will change. Or you could be a disruptive company and change that.
They don't just say 'that's just normal', they shoot down anyone who suggests there's room for improvement. :(

One thing manufacturers could improve is the time it takes for routine servicing of watches. If they have a massive backlog why do they get you to send your watch in immediately and have it sit on a shelf for weeks (or months) before they pick it up to start the work? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for them to give a realistic date for when the service can take place and arrange the watch to be delivered the week before?
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by TG3N »

In my opinion, a watch company should prioritise warranty repairs over standard servicing.

However, you cannot compare car servicing with watch servicing. Cars are utterly essential items for most, watches really aren’t, and that is why cars necessarily have a priority, speedy service turnaround, because they demand it. In an ideal world, watches would too.

Ponder the perverseness of paying thousands of pounds for circa 175 grams of sapphire, brass, polyruby & steel in a luxury watch, when the same money would buy you around a ton of second-hand car, seats, engine, sat-nav, air-con, stereo etc. Cars are cheap by comparison because as an essential they have to be. It’s the same with their servicing speed. By contrast, no-one needs a Tourbillon in their daily life.

I agree the watch industry has rested on its laurels, and that 4-6 weeks and longer - ‘Hello there, Richemont!’ - is really poor. They’ve gotten away with it because we’re told it’s the norm.

Sales people sell watches without adequately explaining aftercare to customers, which is a huge failing. It’s a chase for sales, move onto the next one and be damned what happens next.

It’s far too simplistic to just say ‘hire more watchmakers’. By way of example, have a look for yourself at the watchmaking training opportunities available in your area - I think you’ll find there’ll be very slim pickings indeed. It’s an ageing, under-invested, scarce workforce.

Yes, a company could buck the trend and hire/train more, but people & premises will always be the most expensive drain on profit. Look at how Richemont (yes, them again) chose to sack hundreds of staff, many aftersales technical, when the downturn hit, but idiotically still making more & more watches (and kidding themselves that a sale-in to an AD or Richemont Boutique in the Far East is the same thing as an actual sale-out to consumer), which they then had to buy-back later and destroy/cannibalise.

There is nowhere near enough investment in technical staff, and too many watches are being churned out.

It’s like that old adage: Cheap, Fast & Good - you can get two of those in combination, but rarely can you have all three.

Some of the servicing practices I’ve read about in luxury brands & independents are shockingly poor as it is, without pushing them to further improve their speed without correlated accompanying investment i.e. cost to consumer.

People seem to forget the RRP paid upfront isn’t some number plucked from thin air - it’s a direct calculation of materials, production, marketing, R&D, aftercare, profit, tax etc. Yes, CW could achieve much quicker turnaround times by investing much more heavily in aftercare, but that would see the end of bargain pricing pretty quickly.

Presumably CW know all this anyway (besides reading this forum), and have taken the opinion that the extra resource or overtime needed to halve service/repair times would mean either reducing profit margin or charging higher RRP (neither palatable), or else hoping for higher sales figures on the back of this new super-servicing reputation.

That’s all well & good, but does anyone actually think the average customer cares about it that much, so as to recognise the inherent value proposition enough to factor it into their purchasing decision, over a cheaper rival with standard servicing turnaround times? I think very few actually do. Most don’t see further than the end of their arm, and the shiny new bauble residing there. All that would happen is in an increase in people bemoaning that CW prices are becoming even more expensive, and so much more than Steinhart (for example).

So long as uneducated and/or uncaring customers continue not to prize such things (until it’s too late or something goes wrong) and choose to vote with their wallet (e.g. reward the likes of NOMOS for actually sharing parts freely with Third Party independent repairers), then we’re relying on the watch industry to voluntarily improve itself in our behalf.

I’ll not be holding my breath for that day.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by scooter »

You Sir should post more often.

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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by downer »

scooter wrote:You Sir should post more often.

scooter
I agree. As usual Mr TG3N articulates the point far better than I can ever manage.
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by Ttf23 »

There’s a distinction to be made between when the watch develops a fault. It’s very different if someone’s brand new watch develops a fault after three weeks as opposed to a fault that comes in a watch’s fourth or even fifth year. I would expect the former to be expedited, not necessarily the latter.

No doubt CW’s very generous five year warranty period contributes to increased demand for repairs too.

For me, any downside of a 5-6 week repair timeframe is more than offset by the benefits of lower pricing and extended guarantees. I might feel differently if I only had one or two watches mind!
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

TG3N wrote:
In my opinion, a watch company should prioritise warranty repairs over standard servicing.

However, you cannot compare car servicing with watch servicing.
An excellent and eloquent post.

I will, however, take slight issue with sentence 1:
Dear AVO, we are sorry that your service will take considerably longer than our estimate as we are currently experiencing an unusually high volume of warranty work.
No, don’t like that.

I agree wholeheartedly with the second however. No comparison at all. I book my car in on a given date, hand it in for service, go and have breakfast and a saunter round the shops and it’s done.
And on the occasion when someone drove a humongous Mummywagen into my car on Waitrose car park, they gave me something perfectly nice to drive around in for a couple of weeks.

Courtesy watch? There’s a thought!
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by mabotham »

seems a reasonable turn around for me...................
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by MWarBR »

Well, it seems that my naivety has provoked a lot of discussion. From the comments, it makes me think that the watch makers are arrogant, quite happy to take the money, but not backing it up with good service. That said, if they make all of these claims about their quality, why do they seem to go wrong?
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Re: Shocking repair time

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

MWarBR wrote:From the comments, it makes me think that the watch makers are arrogant, quite happy to take the money, but not backing it up with good service.
That seems like some pretty selective comment reading to me. Sure, there are people who agree with you but there are plenty who are telling you that the timeframe is reasonable.

Oh, and if you think these guys are arrogant I take it you’ve met them? I have and they’re not.
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