Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

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PaulJS
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Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by PaulJS »

Anyone who frequents this place knows that one of the repeat topics is that of poor customer service and / or perceived quality issues. These can be subdivided into categories such as 'this has just happened to my watch - anyone had this before / know what it is?", " X weeks and still waiting for repair return with no communication ", " this bit has just fallen off - is this common?" etc. etc.

This prompts a range of responses from the correctly reassuring "Use the excellent warranty and it will be sorted" through to " yet another CW QC issue - what on earth are they doing?"

Not unreasonably this is often followed up by speculation about what percentage of customers forum members represent and how this sits against the alleged percentage of returns that CW claim to experience.

All of the above could potentially paint a very poor picture for a prospective purchaser who happens to 'land' on the forum at the wrong time looking for some product background / reassurance prior to purchase.

My own experience of CW quality and service has been very good - 7 purchases and one problem that was resolved in a reasonable timescale under warranty - and it has made me think about how a forum such as this can, unintentionally, distort the reality. I will try to explain:

I don't 'do' forum contributions other than this, but I do use them as a resource for diagnosing faults / problems and finding solutions for vehicles and in other mechanical and electrical arenas. Almost without exception, when you search out a problem what you find is enough 'evidence' of other people experiencing the same things (or worse) that it could scare you off the product for life! This applies to many vehicles (my experience relates to Minis, BMWs, MGs, Mitsubishis, Mercedes and others, all of which have so many documented horror stories that you wonder how any of them are still on the road!), heating systems ( both carbon based and renewable ) and mid - high end hi-fi products. All of which have a plethora of 'documented' problems.

However, my most salutary experience was joining a classic car owners' club thinking it would be of help! I ran my 'classic' ( a Scimitar GTE ) for a year before joining (having re-commissioned it after 20 years standing in a garage) and had no major issues - just used it and enjoyed it. However, at the first club meet I attended I was regaled with every fault and problem these things suffered from and met with disbelief when I said mine didn't have any of them!

The result was that I drove home a nervous wreck watching every gauge, listening for every noise and half expecting the front wheels to fall off ( trunions!! )

Where I am getting to with this - if you have managed to stick with my literary meanderings - is that places like this where there is an intense interest in something can, with all good intent - paint a far worse picture than exists in reality. They can be really useful and I have found many an answer on a specialist forum, but they attract reports of problems like iron filings to a magnet!

Don't get me wrong, I empathise with everyone who has a bad experience and / or disappointing CS experience but I do think a bit of caution is needed when extrapolating the incidence of problems up and applying it to the whole product output.

And finally, I am no apologist for CW (as some of my other posts testify!) but I do think that it is admirable that these things get aired without the slightest censorship for the benefit of all.

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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

An excellent post. I think your feelings are akin to those I expressed last evening.

I occasionally review holidays and hotels on Trip Advisor. I often wonder where the damning reviews come from for some absolutely wonderful places I have stayed in. It seems that a considerable number of people only go into print, as it were, if they have something to complain about.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by sproughton »

It often depends on people's sensibilities in general. Personally when something's great I'll mention it then forget it, whereas if something's bad I'll probably not stop going on about it.

And on a forum like this, if something goes wrong then it takes time to fix and the thread stays alive longer than a thread with good news as generally there's little follow up on that one.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by OllyW »

Too true. People will always want to post their experiences when something goes wrong but will rarely feel the need to tell everyone when it's working just fine.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by My Name Is Pete »

It's just the universal internet psychology at work.

Whenever there's a forum dedicated to a particular product or service, there will inevitably be a disproportionate number of threads created to complain about said product/service. The severity of said complaints are often out of proportion with the actual event (people unconsciously exaggerate events to make their point appear more important).

Other people then react against these threads, and emotions get raised.

Sometimes you just have to shrug and move on with your life - this behaviour won't stop as long as there's an internet to complain on.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by hughesyn »

Good post.

I read a lot on the forum before buying my first CW, and it didn't put me off.
The forum gave me confidence to buy because of the clear passion of fourm members and quality comparisons by members who also owned Omega, etc.

We need to keep the positive reviews and comments coming to balance the problems.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by Kip »

An excellent and well considered post Paul.

I think the example of your experience with the classic car club is excellent.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by Stuart1 »

I can empathise I used to own 1973 Scimitar GTE SE5a (British racing green) and I heard all the horror stories at the club meets as well.
In my own case I returned a datejust twice after service as the glass was scratched. My Planet Ocean (2201.50), lasted two days before a problem arose. In both cases the problem was handled with the minimum of fuss, corrective action took place and the watch was returned as I expected. In my view that is Customer service the problems were solved.

I believe that there is the saying that if something goes wrong you tell ten friends however if something goes well you tell only one. It is something I like to keep in mind and say when things have been done well.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by rcherryuk »

As my boss used to say " You don't ring Ryanair Customer Services to tell them about your wonderful flight, do you?"

It's no surprise surely that most people are only vocal/verbose about negative things is it? Surely it's this "Blitz Spirit' of being in it together they're trying to encourage?

However, there are far to many 'keyboard warriors' that just want a quick fight as well.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by Tyke »

I once read a study on customer behaviour towards companies, which stated that if you had good service you would tell 3 people, if it was bad service you would tell 14 people on average.

This was before the explosion in internet media but if the ratio holds good now, companies need to ensure 80% plus satisfaction just to break even on personal references.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by Ian Mc »

hughesyn wrote:Good post.

I read a lot on the forum before buying my first CW, and it didn't put me off.
The forum gave me confidence to buy because of the clear passion of fourm members and quality comparisons by members who also owned Omega, etc.

We need to keep the positive reviews and comments coming to balance the problems.
Snap! I did the same and am very happy with my purchase and with the customer service when I returned a NN watch from the recent sale because it didn't gel with me.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by gwells »

fwiw, i think it's fairly easy to tell the difference on a forum like this.

if someone has 20 posts and most are about a customer service issue, that's a problem but it's also potentially part of the "people only go there to complain" factor that you mention.

but if someone has 500 or 5000 posts and is talking about a customer service issue, this is someone who's invested in at least the forum, if not the brand, and not just "there to complain" about an issue. very few people will hang around to bash a brand on a dedicated brand site long enough to generate that many posts.

edit: i will say that i've seen enough of a rise in the # of issues with shipping/repairs/etc. that it does concern me mildly that i'm about to send my 2012 FLE back for service. i was lucky enough that when my wife bought it for me, it was during an event where they gave away a free services w/in 5 years, and i'm coming up on that 5 year mark (next spring). hard to beat free, but here's hoping that i don't run into any issues.
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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by poppydoodlesdad »

I'm not sure why people are seemingly so surprised about why customers "complain".

While I will tell people about "good" service or buying experiences it will need to be fairly exceptional in some way because I expect (rightly I would say) "good" service to be the norm. I'm not going to say "Wow, Argos (or whoever) sold me something today and there were no problems!",because that's what's supposed to happen.
For this reason I have never really bought in to the super customer service aspect of CW. For me personally it has never been anything more than I would expect in the first place.

Sure, things will always go wrong occasionally and it is how a company responds to these that make a difference. Such experiences can in fact become positives that you tell people about!

I don't think that people really come here just to "complain",I think they come looking for (re)assurance and the "it will be sorted" response goes some way to providing that.
The apparent increase in posts / threads "knocking" CW is perhaps less an issue about the Forum so much as it is about the company?


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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by nbg »

@poppydoodlesdad - agreed that pretty well domes up my view as well.

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Re: Observations about Problems with CW Products & Services

Post by robinbarke »

Sadly the problem with Christopher Ward is that all aspects of the company's performance is overhyped.
Just a few examples;

The last annual sales figures CW claimed to be upwards of 20,000

Mike France at the same time claimed 17,500. They both can't be right.

The Forum represents only 2% of sales. And yet when there is 15% off, exclusively for Forum members at the start of a sale the sales department is thrown into turmoil. How can that be if they are happiliy coping with 20,000 sales a year.

CW stated that the reason for the rebranding and new logo was to meet the necessity of improving volumes without resorting to sales. Among the first watches to bear the new logo is a limited edition of 19 pieces and there is already a sale on!

The returns ratio is less than 1% and improving! Apart from Kip how many Forum members have up to 10 CW watches and haven't had to return at least one. That's a 10% returns ratio. Even op Paul has returned one in seven (ratio 12%!) and links this with praise for CW!

It is these and many similar contradictions that frustrate me but maybe I am alone in this. In the main I do agree with Paul's sentiments.

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