Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

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Internaut
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Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Internaut »

Hello,

I now have my first mechanical watch in 32 years (the last one being a Timex Snoopy watch) and since then have always used either quartz movement or digital. So, I have a question:

What is generally considered acceptable time drift for an automatic watch given the movements used by CW? Obviously, I wouldn't expect an automatic to have the same accuracy of a watch with quartz movement (or a digital watch) but...... my Malvern drifts forward a little each day. Minimum I've measured over 24 hours is 8 seconds and maximum is 30 seconds (if I'm a betting man then I'm betting the variables are infinite). I tend to reset the time one a week.

I'm relatively chilled on the issue (no one was ever late for an appointment with a fast watch) and ask out of interest.

Regards
I
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Hans »

Hi Internaut,

Well, if a mechanical watch would have an average drift between -4 and +6 seconds a day, it is considered very precise. With this average it would even be able to get an C.O.S.C. certificate, that is the Official Swiss Chronometer Testing Institute, which hands out certificates to movements of brands like Breitling and Rolex that don't exceed this average drift.

The ETA-movements that are used by CW are of high quality and oscillate with a frequency of 28,800 beats per hour, making it possible for these relative cheap movements to also fall within this range.

I would say +8 seconds a day is still acceptable, more then that not, but these are my standards. ;-) I have been 'tuning' my Malvern a bit, and for the last year it is running at a very steady rate of +2 seconds a day, and I know that there are lots of people within this forum that have achieved similar results.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Internaut »

Thanks Hans for the comprehensive response.

How does one tune a watch? Does this involve taking the back off and messing about with the innards?
Beat up vintage Swatch Irony, C5 Malvern (the original), Swiss Military Swiss Soldier Quartz, Seagull 1963, Swatch Blurang Automatic, Swatch Cafe de Flore, Sealander GMT, Trident Pro 600, Fitbit Charge 5. Festina 8810, Addiesdive AD2113 knock off.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Hans »

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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Internaut »

Thanks for that interesting link. Having screwed up the sensor of my digital SLR while trying to get rid of dust this year, I think I will leave the back of my mechanical watch where it belongs :lol: .

To say I'm not good at this sort of thing would be the understatement of the 21st century.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

I'm with you there - I know my theory, but with tools in hand, I am useless, bordering on dangerous. Although I admit to having cleaned my dSLR's sensor more than once, with confidence.

You can have a watchmaker do it, at a very reasonable cost. Watchmakers (if they're any good) usually have equipment that takes the trial and error out of the equation.

I would strongly advise to allow a new watch to run in for a couple months before bringing it in to a watchmaker to have it tuned. Mechanical watches do need a couple months running time before they 'settle down into a consistent rhythm'.

peter
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by michaelf »

This is an interesting point, just when do you get concerned about the drift on an automatic watch? My CW Malvern seems to gain a couple of minutes a week but I have other automatic watches which are much more reliable, particularly my Oris. I also have a couple of replica automatic watches which keep better time than my CW. I am not overly concerned and adjust the watch every couple of days but I must admit to being a bit surprised that it has not been keeping better time - maybe it will settle down, I've owned it a couple of months so I look forward to when it is properly "run-in."
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

When you get concerned mainly relies on two factors: you and the watch. ;)

1. some people are not worried with a watch gaining a few minutes a week (and they're probably right).
Some people worry when their second hands do not run in perfect unison after 24 hours - these are the Professional Worriers. They should get a radio-controlled watch and shut up. ;)
I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm happy when an automatic is as good as my Omega, which gains up to two seconds a day.

2. If you get a Seiko with a 7s26 movement, you're not likely to get that sort of accuracy. The 7s26 movements are fairly crude, at rock-bottom price, but remarkably reliable. If you get a watch like that, you shouldn't worry when it gains 15 seconds a day.

As I said, my old Omega, which still runs like new, is my benchmark. Now that I've got the Malvern Auto SWT (the one that ran 32-33 seconds fast per day) adjusted - which was 5 minutes work for the watchmaker - it has come out as being a little bit more accurate than the Omega -- it's 11seconds fast since I got it adjusted, which was a week and a day ago. That is brilliant.
The Malvern Auto GKK, which has now morphed into a GKG, does consistently better than that - it gains 6 seconds a week. But then again, the gold Malvern is two years old.

When I say "consistently better", I am being a bit of a Professional Worrier. A difference of 5 secons A WEEK is completely insignificant in everyday life, and both watches run well within chronometer accuracy tolerance.
It also doesn't mean that the SWT is not adjusted as well as the gold watch - these are microscopic differences from an adjustment standpoint. Mind you, with 11 seconds a week, we're talking about a 0,001653439% deviation. I find it mind-boggling that a mechanical watch can be accurate to two thousands of a precent.

Most watchmakers will regulate a watch to be a little bit fast - that is the general preference. The user will worry more about a slow watch than about a fast watch, and when your watch is fast, it's a lot easier to compensate, say, once a week or once a month, if you know how fast it is.
And the last bit is the most important bit - you want your mechanical watch to be consistently fast. For a watch that has been ran in, you SHOULD start worrying if it's 10 seconds fast one day, and 10 seconds slow the next day.

So, now you know what your Malvern Automatic is potentially capable of. After something like 3-6 months, start keeping an eye on it to see whether it starts to settle into a consistent rhythm of being fast. Once it does, take it to the watchmaker, and expect to get a watch that is less than 10 seconds fast a day.

Hope this helps,
peter
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by John »

After regulation my C5 runs 2 seconds fast in a day.
I think that's very accurate.
I also own a Breitling, it is COSC-certified and slows 8 seconds a day.
It is much easier to regulate the Malvern yourself than a Breitling GMT.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by charlesdidi »

Well, obviously for an automatic watch you need tolerance - but my C5 Malvern automatic drifts all over the place and I'm fed up and desolate. I've had it for 18 months and at first it went 10 seconds fast a day. No problems there. But then it went really fast, I can't remember how fast, but I found it unacceptable. I sent the watch back to Christopher Ward, maybe a year ago and he couldn't work out what was wrong so he replaced the movement. Brilliant service. The new movement went 8 seconds fast, then settled down to 3 seconds fast a day. I was delighted. It then drifted up to 10 seconds a day fast. I was so pleased with the watch, that I bought an Alligator strap. Now, all of a sudden, over the past week, the watch is running 1 minute fast every 24 hours. I'm beginning to wonder whether my body is simply unsuitable for an automatic watch. No, I haven't dropped it, put it next to a magnet or done anything unusual. Yes, I've tried putting it down in different positions at night time and also wound it up. I'm actually thinking of dumping the watch, but I'm so fond of it and it's become like an old friend. So what do I do, adjust it every day? Send it back to Christopher Ward? Or give up on automatics. I am tempted by the Peregrine, but frankly I'm beginning to find that CW watches are getting a bit pricey for an unknown brand- although I appreciate the quality is excellent. But then the quality of The Malvern is basically excellent and it's giving problems. I'm not a time freak, but I do want to be able to know that I can rely on a watch within a reasonable tolerance.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Hans »

One minute a day is absolutely unacceptable. If an ETA 2824-2 calibre suddenly deviates that far there almost certainly must be something broken or very wrong. The fact that this happens the second time to you makes it for me hard te believe it is an coincidence. Are you certain that you never wear the watch under extreme conditions, like very strong magnetic fields, or heavy vibrations or something like that? Have you been adjusting the watch your self, or have you never opened it?
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by charlesdidi »

If only I knew the answer. No heavy vibrations. No magnetic fields. I really care for this watch. And it hasn't been dropped either. I wouldn't dare open up the watch. The first time it happened, was a direct result of adjusting to British Summertime, no doubt about that - something in the mechanism got disturbed I'm sure; but this second time is a complete mystery. Nothing has changed since I had the new movement. I usually adjusted the time on the watch every ten days or so. The only real movement in my (left) wrist, now I come to think of it, is from tapping the keys on my keyboard, but that surely cannot harm the watch. I'm very puzzled and disappointed and I'll have to sort my mind out on this one before deciding what to do.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

I tap my keyboard all day... being a programmer, I qualify as a Professional Keyboard Tapper. It does not affect my automatic watches, including both CW Malvern Automatics, one bit. And both my Malverns now run within chronometer specifications, no matter in what position I store them in at night. So, no, that can't be the cause of your issue.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by joerattz »

I am on a keyboard all day too and much of the night and I am not having issues with any of my CWs. Just to cover our givens, the source you are comparing it to is guaranteed accurate, correct? It couldn't be the culprit could it?
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by Hans »

When I mentioned heavy vibrations I was thinking about playing golf, using a sledge-hammer, that kind of stuff, not tying your keyboard! :lol:

I am starting to think that you have a case of extremely bad luck on your hands, two 2824-2 calibers in a row giving problems, that is a shame! As you can read in a lot of threads in this forum, the 2824-2 can do very well, if you really like the watch I would take it to a watchmaker and let him perform a quick inspection.
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