Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
David
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by David »

charlesdidi wrote:I am tempted by the Peregrine, but frankly I'm beginning to find that CW watches are getting a bit pricey for an unknown brand- although I appreciate the quality is excellent.
I know it is taking this thread off on a tangent but it is worthwhile commenting on it seeing as the subject has been raised. Im starting to think the same way if Im honest. I was a little bit disapointed that the C1 started at £160. I was hoping it would start at around £135 as does the C3. I realise the C1 comes with an alligator strap as standard which will push up the price but offering it with a standard leather strap at a reduced cost might have been nice for those of us with less spare cash to burn. Would it have compromised the design quality of the C1 by offering it with a standard leather strap? well perhaps but it would have at least made it more affordable. I was also very disapointed to see the Red C4 coming in at £245. I could get a half decent Tissot or Seiko for that price. Of course like Charlesdidi I do appreciate that with CWL that the quality is there if not yet the brand name.

Maybe I am being unfair to CW with this subject. Perhaps it is simply just because I would like to own so many of their watches that I am starting to groan at some of the recent prices. In time I could own a few but not if the prices keep going up. I rarely buy multiple watches of the same brand but the CW watches do attract me to do so which is a first for me. But if they start get into the £200+ bracket then instead of buying a few CW watches I might be better putting the cash into something like a single Omega rather than different models from CW.

Those of you that picked up your C5's for £100 do not know how lucky you were. I would snap one up in a minute at that price. I hope the new Kingfisher does launch at £135 as I would like one of those too. I can live with that price point without losing any sleep but if it ends up being £160+ then I will need to reconsider. I reckon that I will have to wait though until CW have a discount offer on before I will get my hands on a C1 though. I like it but just not enough to spend £160 on it.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by joerattz »

David wrote:Those of you that picked up your C5's for £100 do not know how lucky you were. I would snap one up in a minute at that price.
I do! I wish I had bought more than one now.

At least you aren't getting creamed by the currency rates like I am.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by cstef »

David, I agree, for a East-European guy like me, seeing CW's going more and more into the 200 zone makes me sad... I can only imagine a Red C4 on my wrist but for that price it will never end there where it belongs...I should start saving for the automatic Kingfisher LE
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by charlesdidi »

I think I have been unlucky. I use GMT, so no problems there. Thanks for all your comments. I will report back in due course. The problem with going to a watchmaker, is that in London, they want £40 just to look at it. Although I am sure that CW will oblige under his guarantee - but I feel that I am taking advantage over his decency. I don't think my wife would be very happy if I spent more money buying another watch. She already queried why I needed a new strap. Maybe a birthday present will be in order, but that's not for another 10 months. I hope CW hasn't edged up his prices further by then.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

charlesdidi wrote:The problem with going to a watchmaker, is that in London, they want £40 just to look at it.
That is nothing short of ridiculous. It takes a good watchmaker with the right equipment less than 5 minutes to figure out whether or not something is seriously wrong with a mechanical movement. This less-than-5-minute test won't show WHAT is wrong, but it will show whether something is wrong or not. My watchmaker (who is a Good Guy(TM), and whom I frequent on a regular basis just because I know he is a Good Guy) did this for free on one of my other watches.

If your local watchmaker charges you £40, my suggestion is to tell him to stuff his services where the sun don't shine, and to take the matter up with CW. No doubt he will know how to proceed.

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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

charlesdidi wrote:Maybe a birthday present will be in order, but that's not for another 10 months. I hope CW hasn't edged up his prices further by then.
Having seen the current discount on the W1, and the planned prices for the new ladies' models, I proceeded without delay, and ordered another W1 for my wife.
It sure helps that my wife is more into design consistency than into an abundance of diamonds scattered all over a watch. If the new ladies' design would've had one diamond at the 12 position, she might have liked it.... but anything that has diamonds scattered all over the place is not her Cup Of Tea.

And in case you would ask: no, she's taken, and last time I looked (this morning), there was no indication of her reconsidering. :mg:

I am one of those who got his C5SWT for under 100 quid, and yes, I do realise how lucky I was. That's why I didn't think twice.
But even today, I think the C5 is worth quite a bit more than double what I paid for it.
I think that comparing a red Peregrine to a half-decent Seiko or Tissot is comparing apples to pears, and that all CW products are still very much worth every penny, and some of them quite a bit more.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by John »

The value for the price is good with the CW watches.
But when the watches are gonna cost more than let's say 200-250 pound it will not be a watch to buy for extra.
People will consider which watch to buy and compare with other watches more often.
I think other watches will become more close to buy.

It's not a high price for a nice automatic, but 240 pound for a quartz like the Peregrine is IMHO a bit high.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

John wrote:not a high price for a nice automatic, but 240 pound for a quartz like the Peregrine is IMHO a bit high.
Tell that to Tag-Heuer. ;-)
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by cstef »

Tell that to Tag-Heuer. ;-)
Why? Anyone think they don't know?
Still CW has used us to good timekeepers for even better scores!So why the sudden change?
For 205 pound you can get the most nice Antea Creme STOWA...so
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by joerattz »

peterh wrote:Tell that to Tag-Heuer. ;-)
But now you aren't really making a fair comparison. TAG has a history, reputation, and brand recognition. As much as I appreciate CW watches, they can't afford to let their prices creep up to the point that they are getting compared to TAG. Also, I don't like TAGs myself, because I think they are overpriced. They just seem too expensive for a quartz movement. IMO, there is just no justification for their cost. I would hate to see CW become like that.
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by cstef »

joe,I totally agree...grrr big names
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by President »

Although I don't want to be an enabler to Mr. Ward, I still think CW prices can go a lot higher before being bad value. If they were still at £100, I would own four by now probably. :lol:
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by peterh »

joerattz wrote:
peterh wrote:Tell that to Tag-Heuer. ;-)
But now you aren't really making a fair comparison. TAG has a history, reputation, and brand recognition.
Which, in the end, aren't worth much by themselves. An overpriced watch with a brand name that has history, reputation, and brand recognition is still an overpriced watch.
As much as I appreciate CW watches, they can't afford to let their prices creep up to the point that they are getting compared to TAG. Also, I don't like TAGs myself, because I think they are overpriced. They just seem too expensive for a quartz movement. IMO, there is just no justification for their cost. I would hate to see CW become like that.
The funny bit is that, from a marketing perspective, that might actually be a good idea. It wouldn't be the first example of an excellent product that gets no recognition because of a price point that is too low for the product to appear on the radar.

Having said that, I don't think that Chris will ever get to the point where his products are in the same price range as TAG-Heuer - it's just not his thing. Or so it seems.

But when the market bears TAG-Heuer prices (which it apparently does, seeing as to how TAG-Heuer sells a great deal more watches than Chris does), it's pushing the limit a bit to call a 200-limited edition series Peregrine Red overpriced. If you don't want to pay 250 euro for a limited edition of a watch that is also available (in a different configuration) for less than 200 pound, then apparently you don't buy into the idea of the exclusivity of a limited edition. I can see why you wouldn't. Fair 'nough. Go ahead and buy a Peregrine for 150 pounds, and compare THAT to TAG-Heuer, or to Stowa, or Poljot, or to whatever brand you like.

The comparison to Seiko chronographs is also quite unfair. Seiko punches out huge numbers of very good watches at an excellent price point, but they lack the finesse and the individuality of a CW chronograph. If you simply want a durable watch that keeps excellent time, get a digital Casio G-Shock. If you want a durable watch with an analog face that keeps excellent time, get a Seiko chronograph with a 7T92 quartz movement. Punching out huge numbers is what Seiko is good at, and because of that, they can keep the cost down.

Yet. While they cost less than a Peregrine, they aren't half as pretty, and they don't stand up to wear and tear as well as at least my Malvern does. I can tell... I've got two Malverns, one G-Shock, and two Seiko quartz chronos. The Seikos, being quartz watches, keep better time, the G-Shock, being a Wave Ceptor, keeps perfect time.
But unless I go rock climbing (which at my age, is an excercise in loosing my balance, toppling over and damaging parts of my anatomy, and possibly my watch too), the C5SWT is my daily watch 95% of the time. It is a beautiful thing to behold, and plenty accurate enough.

I just don't see the point of CW watches becoming too expensive. Yes, they may be more expensive than an individual might be willing to afford. I'd love to be able to buy a Malvern-type watch for 99 pounds. But if Chris can't make a Malvern and sell it at 99 pounds and make some money in the progress (Chris and Wera have to eat too, you know... and they'd probably prefer to have some peanut butter on their buns rather than dry bread, and milk instead of tap water to rinse it down), then it ain't gonna happen.

I also do not see the "sudden change" that cstef is on about. Apart from special offers like the 99 quid offer that I got my C5 for one and a half year ago, the C5 and the C3 have always been at the same price point, give or take a few quid.
The Russell is too much of an acquired taste to sell in big numbers, plus it's probably more expensive to make. But my guess is that, after some time, we're going to see more "entry level" configurations of the Russell (i.e. with an affordable strap).

When I first came across the C5, I did some supernatural Excel calculations, and wondered how Chris could ever make money on that watch selling at a list price of 159 pounds. He then told me what his profit margin on the C5 was, and while I was amazed at how high it was (actually I was amazed that he did make money on it at all!), I also thought that this margin was, from a business point of view, too low. Apparently, he did listen - he raised the price to 160 pound. ;-)
But I am still sure that I make more money than he does. I hope his margin on watches like the Peregrine and the Russell is better than it is on the Malvern, or else he won't be in business 5 years from now.

Come on, guys... give the guy a break. He's providing us with excellent watches at a fair price. I don't think there is any ground whatsoever to say that his products are too expensive.
If you can get an Antea Creme STOWA, go ahead and get that one too.

Just my €0.02

peter
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Re: Acceptable Drift for Automatic Watch?

Post by joerattz »

peterh wrote:But when the market bears TAG-Heuer prices (which it apparently does, seeing as to how TAG-Heuer sells a great deal more watches than Chris does), it's pushing the limit a bit to call a 200-limited edition series Peregrine Red overpriced. If you don't want to pay 250 euro for a limited edition of a watch that is also available (in a different configuration) for less than 200 pound, then apparently you don't buy into the idea of the exclusivity of a limited edition.
That's fair. Being such a small limited editon, that really is a pretty reasonable price. It's a bit of a cactch 22 really. What many that would buy the red peregrine (were it cheaper) want, is a red peregrine. They aren't so much interested probably in the LE status of it. If that's not the case, they really have no justification to complain about the price for a 200 count LE. They just want a red peregrine. It's a bit of a premium to pay just to get a red peregrine. On the other hand, were Chris to make non-LE red peregrine at a lower price point, who wants to buy a LE red peregrine if its just like the normal red peregrine but costs $100 more and has a serial number range its limited to? Chris has to be able to offer something special for the peregrine, apparently he has found quite a seductive red, although it isn't doing anything for me.

I think what everyone wants is all models to be 99 pounds! Let's have a vote. All for all CW models being 99 pounds say aye. Unfortunately (for us, not so much for Chris), he has to make a profit and enough of one to be worthwhile.
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