Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
User avatar
smegwina
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 11771
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 10:04 am
CW-watches: 11

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by smegwina »

medtech71 wrote:there are restictions on all sorts of things to precent abuse, like concert tickets. Don't know if that is necessary for a watch, but there are some instances where restrictions could be put in place.
But that was to prevent the tickets being sold for several times its face value.

These are products being sold at.more than the sale price, but not several times their rrp. (Besides there is now stubhub et al who seem to have made this legitimate)

To me, if someone gets in early, takes the risk of tying up a load of cash in watches that they then have to sell..... all power to them!

It is a free market economy and whilst it may suck for those who miss out, that is life.

Sent from my IRON using Tapatalk
Glynn
Senior
Senior
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:32 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Worcester

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by Glynn »

Paul Drawmer wrote:
Glynn wrote:CW watches have started to appear in cash converter in worcester
With papers? Do we have a 'hot numbers' list anywhere?
Not sure if papers are with them
The attitude you live by determines the altitude you fly at.
Glynn
Senior
Senior
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:32 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Worcester

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by Glynn »

MiniMpi wrote:
Glynn wrote:CW watches have started to appear in cash converter in worcester
Let us know if there is a C600 Elite there Glynn as one was stolen recently from a member.
I will have a look
The attitude you live by determines the altitude you fly at.
BerlinCW
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:15 pm

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by BerlinCW »

Glynn wrote:
Paul Drawmer wrote:
Glynn wrote:CW watches have started to appear in cash converter in worcester
With papers? Do we have a 'hot numbers' list anywhere?
Not sure if papers are with them
Greetings,

And Leeds!
User avatar
akirk
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3422
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:59 pm
CW-watches: 0

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by akirk »

Caller wrote:No need to be so high and mighty about this (that's to Akirk). It's quite simple, what hacks off some members is the thought of other members taking advantage of the sale with the specific intent of immediately flogging it elsewhere to make a profit. We already know of one member who informed us he is keeping CW in profit by spending £27k on sale watches to sell on at a profit.

It's a 'mate' thing, being part of a social club if you like, just expecting reasonable behaviour from others. I don't know if CW are bothered or not, or what they can actually do about it. But it's easier elsewhere, on another forum I use, someone was buying at 'mates' rates on the forum and flogging them at higher prices straight away on ebay. He was banned because it was against the spirit of what the forum is about.
Sorry, not high and mighty - just think that the negativity on here is totally flawed! Nor is it constructive for this forum - there are lots of good things about this forum, but the small minority who concern themselves with telling others how to behave don't improve it!

If this was happening with people purchasing in the sale corner on here, then maybe, just maybe there would be an issue - however even in those circumstances I don't see the problem, a seller doesn't have to sell, and the price is agreed by both sides...

however this is someone buying from CWL in public with no preferential information - CWL are not selling them the watches in advance of anyone else, they are not using secret information gained from this forum or elsewhere - anyone can sign up with CWL to get notification of sales / can follow them on facebook / etc. Anyone can buy those watches by clicking buy and paying for them - anyone can then sell them on - it is a free world, so to complain that someone choose to do it is completely 'dog-in-manger' / 'I don't want to buy these watches, but I don't approve of what you choose to do with them' - utterly ludicrous, what gives anyone on here the right to think that they can tell another member of the public how many watches they are allowed to buy / what they are allowed to do with those watches - the arrogance is staggering!

It is not a mate thing / it is not part of a social club / it has nothing to do with behaviour being reasonable or otherwise - and who is setting themselves up as policeman to decide what is or isn't reasonable? This is a member of the public buying products from a company and then selling them on - it is up to that company to decide whether they like it or not - they can always refuse to sell to him... If he is continually buying (and you can see the sales for the person mentioned here: http://www.watchroll.com/seller.php?sel ... plates-com) then presumably CWL are happy with that - why do members of this forum feel that they have a better understanding of what is right or wrong in relation to CWL's transactions than CWL themselves?

Fine, if someone doesn't like it - that is a valid, and personal, feeling - however it is not a universally accepted feeling, and the use of pejorative language such as 'taking advantage of' / 'profiteering' etc. is inappropriate / inaccurate - it is a simple commercial transaction like millions of others every day... and whether someone doing that is a member of this forum is irrelevant - a forum is simply a place for disparate people to talk over common interests - just because two people like CWL watches doesn't make them best buddies, or mean that they agree to bond and observe each others' 'rules' and manage their 'sensitivities' - it is no more complex than someone making a purchase, and then selling on to make a profit - they aren't doing it to wind up forum members or to steal watches from under someone else's nose - if someone on here doesn't like it, they can buy the watch concerned - if they choose not to, they have no right to tell someone else what they can do with it or criticise them when they make a perfectly valid and legal decision!

Alasdair
Tracking Christopher Ward watch prices on ebay globally at Watchroll
Tracking Bremont watch prices on ebay globally at Watchtrace
droc
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:44 am

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by droc »

The whole concept of ebay was conceived based on this type of arbitrage. Sellers put out money and risk getting it back plus transaction costs, when they perceive value relative to what the open market will pay. This can be at a flea market or garage sale, or in this case a clearance sale Is it fair they buy it before somebody else who really wanted it for themselves comes along 10 minutes later? Probably, and the person selling it to them most likely agrees and doesn't care what happens afterwards. Ebay allows somebody else who wants it just as much as that next buyer to purchase it at a price they consider fair, and in many cases get items they otherwise would not be able to find.

I've never sold anything on ebay, but it allows me to buy things I could never have found before it existed, and what I win with a bid is the market value at that moment. Nobody forces me to buy it and the seller assumes that risk. Ebay has broadened the market for anyone who pursues and collects anything, sometimes driving prices higher but only to the point somebody will still buy it. I can't go to every flea market or keep tabs on never ending sales but I can still get some benefit out of somebody else doing it.
User avatar
Amor Vincit Omnia
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 33782
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Back on page 2 I stated that I agreed with the OP. Thereby contributing in a small way to the latest volley of shots from the trenches. Before shooting me down in flames as a Communist agitator or a dog in the manger, please understand my reasons.

In principle, I am not opposed to the right of any individual to buy whatever they wish at any price they can and sell it at whatever price they want. Human rights and free market economy.

However, I have experienced the other side of it. In a now not so recent sale one example of a watch was made available at half the original RRP. I would have bought it in an instant if I had had, or rather been in range of, a decent Internet signal at the time. I missed it – fair enough. At least until the buyer signalled the immediate intention to sell it on. My offer was met with a certain amount of derision, as the buyer made it clear that his intention in buying had been to sell it for at least double what he paid – the RRP or better. It went on eBay, I believe, for more than the RRP.

So a genuinely interested party, instead of picking up a relatively rare object at the sale price, is faced with buying the same object for more than double from someone who has no interest in it beyond that of making money. In fact, I would probably have bought the watch from CW at RRP. But in the end I chose, out of practical sense more than moral outrage, to keep the extra £200+ in my own holiday fund rather than siphoning it into his. In fact, I think I even wished him GLWTS.

Absolutely nothing illegal in in any of that. And I will not make a moral crusade of it. I was cross at the time because someone was as willing to make easy money out of me as I was unwilling to let him. You can draw your own conclusions. But, like certain other people on this thread, I reserve the right to express my opinion – even if it doesn't conform to those of said other people.

Advocate the right of everyone to hold an opinion by all means. But then allow them to express it. Preferably without resorting to cheap slurs by way of response if you don't happen to agree. As has often been said so eloquently, no one has a monopoly on being right.
Steve
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; apprentice travel writer

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time


Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
User avatar
nbg
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 13150
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:43 pm
CW-watches: 14
Location: UK

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by nbg »

If CW sent the "preview" sales emails, to all who have signed up to receive them, at the same time this would be a big improvement. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Neil
Other watch forums of interest:
TZ-UK
User avatar
akirk
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3422
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:59 pm
CW-watches: 0

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by akirk »

AVO, I do understand your perspective...
however in that example you mention that he sold it for c. RRP - so the issue there was not that he bought it and resold it -but that someone else was happy to pay more for the watch... there are no cheap slurs here, but the OP calls this profiteering, others talk about it being underhand and abusing the forum privileges etc. - clearly none of that is true, the buyer bought it, you could have bought it but unfortunately had insufficient internet access - no-one's fault, not a scenario created by the buyer - then at resale point - you were annoyed that he wanted to sell for RRP - but why shouldn't he - if it sold for that price then it is fair that he should sell at that price - he wasn't holding anyone to ransom, not forcing anyone to pay that price - it is a simple commercial transaction and in the open market that is ebay someone was happy to pay that price - yes, personally disappointing, but nothing underhand or dodgy about it - totally valid...

you say that you were prepared to pay RRP from CWL, yet you were not prepared to pay RRP from him / you didn't want to siphon money from your holiday fund to his - yet were prepared to put it into CW's holiday fund? You were cross because he was prepared to make easy money from you, but wouldn't have been unhappy for CWL to make that same easy money from you if they had sold it at RRP - why the difference? CWL is in business to make money from us - so is the reseller - what is the difference - the only difference I can see is that for some reason people don't like the resller making a profit - though are totally happy for a bigger company to make the same profit from the same items... that in my mind is totally illogical

if there was a logic in all of this (seller getting first dibs on the watches / CWL restricting purchases to one each and the seller circumventing that / seller getting preferential rates / some other strange happening) then the arguments would make sense - but with the reality of what is happening it is no different to CWL selling it, hence the fact that those who are calling this profiteering / etc. are in fact the ones out of order...

Alasdair
Tracking Christopher Ward watch prices on ebay globally at Watchroll
Tracking Bremont watch prices on ebay globally at Watchtrace
andy71
Senior
Senior
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:30 am
CW-watches: 5

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by andy71 »

I do hope someone buys up all of those BDDs soon. I just ordered one - as it's a massive discount on the versions currently on the main site, using the tactic that there are probably only a few left so better get in quick. It now feels like there are loads of 'em. But essentially 1K of from a version with about 50 quid of gold on it has to be a bargain.
C90 Power Reserve, C60 GMT, C11 Makaira Pro, C9 Big Day Date - in that order:)
User avatar
7ee
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1496
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:15 pm
CW-watches: 0

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by 7ee »

akirk wrote:You were cross because he was prepared to make easy money from you, but wouldn't have been unhappy for CWL to make that same easy money from you if they had sold it at RRP - why the difference? CWL is in business to make money from us - so is the reseller - what is the difference - the only difference I can see is that for some reason people don't like the resller making a profit - though are totally happy for a bigger company to make the same profit from the same items... that in my mind is totally illogical
I don't agree when people try to suggest resellers are the same as retail mark-ups. A business has to put in minimum orders usually of substantial value in order to gain cost prices, these prices were never intended for the public and therefore no opportunity is being taken away from the public domain.

What happens when public swoop in and buy up sale stock and then quickly offer at a higher price is remove opportunity of genuine buyers, there's two very big differences there and shouldn't be confused.

A public buyer could easily grab a few pieces from a CW sale, get them advertised and if they don't sell within 60 days simply return it to CW for full refund under the 60/60 guarantee so to say the resellers are taking full risk isn't correct either.

I try to keep out of this debate as it tends to get too personal, as has been reflected by a couple of comments on the last page which are uncalled for IMO. We each have our opinions on the subject but nobody should be insulted over it, I respect anyones opinion even if I don't personally agree with it.

The only forum I use on a very regular basis which I have done so for years has the stance that the classified forums there should not be used for profiteering. They would take a very firm stance on things like this where the buyer has bought something on offer and then attempt to resell in order to make a quick profit, I don't think many members(and they have a huge membership) disagree with their beliefs on that so I don't think that way of thinking is a small minority.
User avatar
Tyke
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:47 pm
CW-watches: 0

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by Tyke »

It's an interesting discussion but none of this will stop them doing it, so the rule of thumb seems to be:

See it on CW website, buy it asap, enjoy it

Miss it on CW website & then see it on ebay, decide if it meets your wants/price limit & then buy/don't buy.


My only gripe was the blatant dishonesty displayed in some of the adverts that the sellers used, which contravene ebay rules (not that complaints to ebay would do any good). Sales Corner here operates on a trust system and belief in the honesty of the seller usually through recommendations by other buyers. Perhaps trust in the info provided by ebay sellers needs to be a factor in anyone's decision to buy?
teestech
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1525
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:22 pm
CW-watches: 7
Location: UK

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by teestech »

I was going to try not get drawn into this too much, as this constant going over of the same ground is one of the things that has kept me away from the forum lately.

I have bought from the Sales Corner on this forum for above the price paid by the seller (knowingly). I have also sold on Sales Corner on this forum for above the price I paid. Was I a profiteering, or simply moving on (and buying) items at their current 'market' rate?

The internet is full of shopping websites which are in fact just shop windows for other people's products. A great many of these sites hold no stock whatsoever, and simply drop-ship items to you the customer direct from the supplier. Often there's no requirement for them to have minimum orders etc, and some will even just be affiliates earning a profit from each sale without ever handling either the product or the money paid. It's called business, and a great many people are employed doing it.

I know the counter argument will be that the price being charged is in some people's opinion 'excessive'. The problem with that viewpoint for me, is that others obviously don't think so as they're buying his watches! It's absolutely fine to not like the prices he's charging, and you would obviously therefore refrain from purchasing, but to suggest he's doing something wrong is over the top in the extreme I think.

Anyway, that's it, had my say on the matter, so will now retire back into the shadows for now.
Chr Ward • Rolex • Oris • Magrette • Orient • Helgray • Citizen • CWC • Momentum • Suunto • Rotary • Majex • Yema
Handwound: 2 • Automatic: 15 • Quartz: 6
User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35152
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 34
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
LE-six: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Tyke wrote:It's an interesting discussion but none of this will stop them doing it, so the rule of thumb seems to be:

See it on CW website, buy it asap, enjoy it

Miss it on CW website & then see it on ebay, decide if it meets your wants/price limit & then buy/don't buy.


My only gripe was the blatant dishonesty displayed in some of the adverts that the sellers used, which contravene ebay rules (not that complaints to ebay would do any good). Sales Corner here operates on a trust system and belief in the honesty of the seller usually through recommendations by other buyers. Perhaps trust in the info provided by ebay sellers needs to be a factor in anyone's decision to buy?
There is an alternative.

See it on CW website, buy it asap at half price, enjoy it for six months or so and . . . . .

. . . . . offer it For Sale on the forum at the price paid, with no takers so (conscience clear) . . . .

. . . . . sell it on ebay as 'used' achieving something around 30% off RRP e.g. nearly new price (which is enough to cover ebay fees and make a modest profit). :)

I did this last year with a C11 MSL Vintage and have no qualms about it as, I had to sell one of my collection at buying time, to keep numbers balanced, I only then sold it because I bought something else and it was offered to the forum at a fair price.

Yes; the blatant re-sellers, who offer a watch on ebay immediately they've bought it, nark me; but that's their prerogative and its life, which is too short to get all uptight. :wave:

Guy
In small proportions, we just beautie see:
And in short measures, life may perfect bee. - Ben Jonson (1572 – 1637)

Inscription on the Longitude Dial
Hatfield House, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NB, England
User avatar
Bahnstormer_vRS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35152
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:06 pm
CW-watches: 34
LE-three: 1
LE-foura: 1
LE-fourb: 1
LE-six: 1
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Disappointing profiteering on eBay

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

teestech wrote:I was going to try not get drawn into this too much, as this constant going over of the same ground is one of the things that has kept me away from the forum lately.

I have bought from the Sales Corner on this forum for above the price paid by the seller (knowingly). I have also sold on Sales Corner on this forum for above the price I paid. Was I a profiteering, or simply moving on (and buying) items at their current 'market' rate?

The internet is full of shopping websites which are in fact just shop windows for other people's products. A great many of these sites hold no stock whatsoever, and simply drop-ship items to you the customer direct from the supplier. Often there's no requirement for them to have minimum orders etc, and some will even just be affiliates earning a profit from each sale without ever handling either the product or the money paid. It's called business, and a great many people are employed doing it.

I know the counter argument will be that the price being charged is in some people's opinion 'excessive'. The problem with that viewpoint for me, is that others obviously don't think so as they're buying his watches! It's absolutely fine to not like the prices he's charging, and you would obviously therefore refrain from purchasing, but to suggest he's doing something wrong is over the top in the extreme I think.

Anyway, that's it, had my say on the matter, so will now retire back into the shadows for now.
Excellent, thoughtful post offering a different perspective on the subject. :clap:

Please don't "retire back into the shadows"; stick around and enjoy. :wave:

Guy
In small proportions, we just beautie see:
And in short measures, life may perfect bee. - Ben Jonson (1572 – 1637)

Inscription on the Longitude Dial
Hatfield House, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NB, England
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post