Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

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Chr.Ward movements .. specifics to be annotated in handbook, or not?

Poll ended at Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:50 am

Yes. I would like to know what movement my watch utilises and have it recorded in the handbook, but don't mind which one it is.
61
60%
No, I don't care which movement my watch uses.
41
40%
 
Total votes: 102

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MadJam250
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Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by MadJam250 »

Some CWL watches are marketed and sold as having either an ETA or Sellita movement in them, eg. C60 .. despite being of similar quality, some fans/owners like to know exactly which is being used in their watches. Currently, the only way to find out is to remove the caseback (which may affect warranty) or, if applicable, try and identify it through the exhibition caseback window.

This was raised a while back in another thread and the discussion, albeit seemingly evened out with as many positives as there were negatives, ended up spiralling out of control and being locked down - to that effect no proper conclusion was made. I return to it again, for a poll, as having discussed this with some friends and work colleagues since, they feel that knowing what movement is in their watch, and having the make/model annotated on the certificate part of the handbook, is a must and would add a personal touch, especially for those who are nerdy enough with regards to tech spec etc. Knowing my watch has either a Sellita or an ETA movement, but not which one specifically, just leads to intrigue, yet I personally am happy with either movement ... I just think many watch fans like to know such detail. I also feel it would also add a bit more of a professional touch to what CWL markets and delivers. The printed part of the handbook could still say 'Sellita or ETA' yet the serial movement details be hand written on to the certificate alongside the serial number. This does not allow customers to chose a movement, but purely to notify them which movement is being used in their particular watch.
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Re: Chr.Ward movements ..being more specific

Post by theaub »

This is something CW might well have to do in the future to satisfy an increasingly knowledgable and inquisitive customer base. The suggestion in the last part of your piece would entail at some point in the manufacture process their including such details. There's no reason why they can't do that - indeed, stock control alone should give them that information.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by Paul Drawmer »

I've not selected either. It's not that I don't care; I am content that at the point of assembly CW will use whatever is appropriate from the choices shown in the specifications due to supply limitations.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by MadJam250 »

Paul Drawmer wrote:I've not selected either. It's not that I don't care; I am content that at the point of assembly CW will use whatever is appropriate from the choices shown in the specifications due to supply limitations.
I am sure they do too. Yet the likes of Steinhart, Tissot, Hamilton and other similarly priced Swiss makers can be specific.

I just feel it's nice to know. When a friend of mine enquired of CW what his C60 was utilising they did not know, implying no record is kept. I find this strange and would be somewhat disappointed, although I personally am not sure if it would influence my decision on whether to send it back or not. On that basis he returned his watch saying that if he is paying £500+ it would be nice to have known a bit more about it. Some won't care less, but as these prices attract watch fans (who love tech specs) I am sure many will wish to know. It's an easy ask keeping a spreadsheet. If logos can put people off, then I've no doubt a nonchalant lack of such information could too.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by Timinwales »

Paul Drawmer wrote:I've not selected either. It's not that I don't care; I am content that at the point of assembly CW will use whatever is appropriate from the choices shown in the specifications due to supply limitations.
What my honourable friend said above:

I know that, my trident has one of two movements fitted, arguably there is a distinct possibility that either movement was made in the same building and while slim the possibility exists that the same individual assembled, checked and or packed the movement for shipping..

Tbh then provided I haven't got the Friday afternoon ( c'mon lads lets get to the pub) version I'm happy

Edit: If I was really that bothered about it I'd open or pay someone to open the watch and look,
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by nigelb001 »

MadJam250 wrote: ........the likes of Steinhart, Tissot, Hamilton and other similarly priced Swiss makers can be specific.
Tissot and Hamilton, being part of the Swatch Group who own ETA, will obviously not have supply problems that some independent watch makers have. It is fair for CWL to be able to substitute equal movements when supply dictates and I don't need to know which are fitted of the two as I have confidence in the brand. I don't see that CWL need to amend their production records just because a few on this forum feel the need to have a dig.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by Paul Drawmer »

I think to remove the bias in the questions; the second question should read along the lines of:

I don't mind which of the movements is in my watch, and I don't need it to be recorded in the handbook.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by magicman »

I voted yes, simply because If anyone ever asks, I can answer.

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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by scooter »

Having read "The ETA v Sellita Story" as written by CWs very own Johannes Jahnke I have come to the conclusion that I really don't need to know.

http://www.christopherward.co.uk/blog/t ... ita-story/

"Aesthetically, the movements are identical and difficult to separate and the only significant difference is in the number of jewels. Sellita added a 26th jewel on the upper side of the barrel axis which sits just below the ratchet wheel. This jewel slightly reduces the friction associated with automatic winding. However, as the ETA movement has never had a problem of reliability in this regard, it is my view that this is most likely a marketing device used by Sellita to create some separation from the ETA movement although one could make a case for the small benefit in reliability the adjusted jewel height gives.

Overall, however, the two movements are so identical in every aspect, it is difficult to have a meaningful discussion about the differences."


Based on the opinion of a much respected Watchmaker I voted 'No. I don't care which movement my watch uses'.

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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by MadJam250 »

nigelb001 wrote:
MadJam250 wrote: ........the likes of Steinhart, Tissot, Hamilton and other similarly priced Swiss makers can be specific.
Tissot and Hamilton, being part of the Swatch Group who own ETA, will obviously not have supply problems that some independent watch makers have. It is fair for CWL to be able to substitute equal movements when supply dictates and I don't need to know which are fitted of the two as I have confidence in the brand. I don't see that CWL need to amend their production records just because a few on this forum feel the need to have a dig.
This is not a dig at the brand, just making a suggestion.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by gbbird »

Definitely would like to know. This is standard info that should be available when spending good money on watches
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by MadJam250 »

scooter wrote:Having read "The ETA v Sellita Story" as written by CWs very own Johannes Jahnke I have come to the conclusion that I really don't need to know.

http://www.christopherward.co.uk/blog/t ... ita-story/

"Aesthetically, the movements are identical and difficult to separate and the only significant difference is in the number of jewels. Sellita added a 26th jewel on the upper side of the barrel axis which sits just below the ratchet wheel. This jewel slightly reduces the friction associated with automatic winding. However, as the ETA movement has never had a problem of reliability in this regard, it is my view that this is most likely a marketing device used by Sellita to create some separation from the ETA movement although one could make a case for the small benefit in reliability the adjusted jewel height gives.

Overall, however, the two movements are so identical in every aspect, it is difficult to have a meaningful discussion about the differences."


Based on the opinion of a much respected Watchmaker I voted 'No. I don't care which movement my watch uses'.

scooter
That's fair comment Scooter and thanks for highlighting JJ's quote.

Maybe, then, a further suggestion... should future owner handbooks have an extra page to quote JJ's views on movements?
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

I've voted 'No' but only because I don't want to vote 'Yes' - I feel the wording of 'No' is unnecessarily emotive.

I do care about the movement in my watch but don't need, or have any particular desire/preference, to know.

Playing devil's advocate; let's suppose CWL do bring in a system of recording which movement is put into a given model of watch, either A or B (I've put it this way to remove any discussion over ETA or Sellita). Then let's suppose a nerd/geek/pedant orders and receives a watch with movement A, but he/she for nerd/geek/pedant reasons wants movement B. What is to be done?

Does the watch get returned under the 60:60 with a request for a replacement with movement B or should the nerd/geek/pedant have ordered the watch with movement B in the first place?

Following on; what if, after a couple of years there is a fault with the movement type B which, rather than being repaired, gets replaced with a type A? Does this get recorded in the handbook?

Just my two pence worth. :wave:

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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by MadJam250 »

Fair question, but if, as highlighted earlier, a page in the booklet quoting JJ's views on both movements is added then that would maybe reassure the doubters (ie. The ones who had the perceived 'inferior' movement in their watch). Either that and/or all the movements have their own CW reference as has been suggested elsewhere before? eg. CW-1234 = ETA 2842 or Sellita SW21, etc. Other brands do this. Then again, the real enthusiasts may still want to know which one it is (playing devils advocate). If JJ's quote, as highlighted by Scooter, was put in the booklets then maybe more folk would be reassured that the two movements are as good as one another.

Ultimately, the buyer doesn't get a choice, just some news that both movements are good. I don't personally feel people will return a watch if it has the perceived 'inferior' movement, but they may, as highlighted earlier in this thread, if CW doesn't know what's in the watch by serial number. To me CW should know, again as has been highlighted earlier in the thread.
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Re: Poll: Chr.Ward movements .. being more specific?

Post by nbg »

... I think the buyer does get a choice.

- They can decide to buy a CW knowing that it may contain A or B, both of which are regarded by the watchmaker as of equal quality. Or...

- They can decide they don't want to buy a CW. The choice is theirs.

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