chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
- Kip
- The Administrator
- Posts: 35171
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
- CW-watches: 150
- LE-one: yes
- LE-two: yes
- LE-three: yes
- LE-foura: yes
- LE-fourb: yes
- LE-five: yes
- LE-six: yes
- LESeven: yes
- Location: New Hampshire, USA
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
First off.... I am moving this into General Discussion.
Second.... I do understand why some here are upset. As a CW forum this "Asylum" is much like a family. It is ok to criticize our own, but don't attack from the outside as we tend to circle the wagons.
Third......I have no problem with other forums lifting photos from us.....how would we stop it anyway. Many have taken from others. Yes they do credit the photos and I really believe that any credits due were just an oversight.
Fourth......Once CW posts, or allows us to post photos/drawings, they are here for the world to see. This is why Chris is cautious about when he releases things to us or anyone else. Surely we can now see how photos etc can quickly be spread around the internet. I don't know where else andrema or tatoo chef saw the photos in question besides here, but aside from not crediting where they picked them up, I really don't see this as a huge deal. Am I underreacting?
Fifth..... In this case, another forum that is friendly with CWL, has helped to promote to its members upcoming models so I don't see that this can possibly hurt.
Sixth.....Rob....calm down! You are supposed to be on vacation as far as I know! You make some valid points, but I do not believe Chris would ever post in a chat or allow me to post anything that he wasn't confident that he was safe in doing so. In fact when Chris does allow me a sneak peek at something, he reiterates that he will tell me when it is ok (which he does) to post. That is a trust we have built over the years. If these guys didn't post them elsewhere, somebody else probably would have. I just don't see any intentional malice here.
Cirrus..good points as well... Just felt a bit stern to me....again just my opinion.
Seventh....I do accept the response by andrema and tatoo chef that the lack of credit was purely unintentional. Don has already stated that he will correct the oversight and I would hope that andrema will do the same.
Eighth....... I hope that we all learn that if one is to use a photo(s) from the internet that appropriate credit is given and/or asked for to prevent snafus such as this. It is only fair IMHO.
Ninth....... I appreciate the passion by all to defend the forum, CWL as well as what you believe to be right and wrong. Thats why we are members of discussion forums, be it here or on others.
Tenth........Since the wagons are circled...how about somebody start a fire and I pass out some meds.
Second.... I do understand why some here are upset. As a CW forum this "Asylum" is much like a family. It is ok to criticize our own, but don't attack from the outside as we tend to circle the wagons.
Third......I have no problem with other forums lifting photos from us.....how would we stop it anyway. Many have taken from others. Yes they do credit the photos and I really believe that any credits due were just an oversight.
Fourth......Once CW posts, or allows us to post photos/drawings, they are here for the world to see. This is why Chris is cautious about when he releases things to us or anyone else. Surely we can now see how photos etc can quickly be spread around the internet. I don't know where else andrema or tatoo chef saw the photos in question besides here, but aside from not crediting where they picked them up, I really don't see this as a huge deal. Am I underreacting?
Fifth..... In this case, another forum that is friendly with CWL, has helped to promote to its members upcoming models so I don't see that this can possibly hurt.
Sixth.....Rob....calm down! You are supposed to be on vacation as far as I know! You make some valid points, but I do not believe Chris would ever post in a chat or allow me to post anything that he wasn't confident that he was safe in doing so. In fact when Chris does allow me a sneak peek at something, he reiterates that he will tell me when it is ok (which he does) to post. That is a trust we have built over the years. If these guys didn't post them elsewhere, somebody else probably would have. I just don't see any intentional malice here.
Cirrus..good points as well... Just felt a bit stern to me....again just my opinion.
Seventh....I do accept the response by andrema and tatoo chef that the lack of credit was purely unintentional. Don has already stated that he will correct the oversight and I would hope that andrema will do the same.
Eighth....... I hope that we all learn that if one is to use a photo(s) from the internet that appropriate credit is given and/or asked for to prevent snafus such as this. It is only fair IMHO.
Ninth....... I appreciate the passion by all to defend the forum, CWL as well as what you believe to be right and wrong. Thats why we are members of discussion forums, be it here or on others.
Tenth........Since the wagons are circled...how about somebody start a fire and I pass out some meds.
Kip
"Asylum Administrator"
Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
"Asylum Administrator"
Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
- Cirrus
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:24 pm
- CW-watches: 2
- Location: Sunny North Wales
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
Perhaps, but like the poster in question I "deal" with IP all the time (and, more importantly, respect it) and I do get very annoyed with the blasé attitude many people adopt to this situation.Cirrus..good points as well... Just felt a bit stern to me....again just my opinion.
For instance, I recently had a stand-up argument with a news editor who showed a video lifted from my company's website on a segment and credited it to "The Internet"... as if anything on here is free to re-use without consideration. His position was that if we hadn't wanted it to be taken then we should have labelled it as such; quite apart from the fact that this is not a requirement of actual UK law, I asked him where this label appeared on the programs he made and broadcast to the nation and how he would feel if we recorded them off-air and sold them to another television channel as if it were our own property...
I accept that there is no real commercial reason to restrict re-posting of the images we are talking about here, but I do not accept that anyone has the right to do so arbitrarily; it takes no time at all to ask for permission and, once received, to credit the source in any re-posting... and it is just the polite way to go about it
“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church” - Fernão de Magalhães
- gwells
- Senior Forumgod
- Posts: 7642
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:02 am
- CW-watches: 1
- Location: falls church, va
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
i can't comment about UK law, but i can say that cirrus' interpretation fits US IP laws as well. just because they're posted online doesn't mean the intellectual property owner suddenly loses any or all rights to that IP. what the internet does is make it easier for someone to appropriate that material without permission. but taking that material without the owner's permission is still inappropriate and actionable by the IP owner. most of the time, the remedy is a basic "take down notice" and it ends at that if the person who appropriated the content takes it down.
intellectual property is one of the most misunderstood common laws out there. being a person who creates IP, as well as someone who consumes quite a bit of it, in his every day work, i'm quite familiar with it.
all of that said, i'm not going to get bent out of shape over this. if kip/hans are willing to accept the explanation and apology, then it is what it is and it's not really our places to fight a fight for them they aren't interested in. it's their site to run and we're just guests here.
intellectual property is one of the most misunderstood common laws out there. being a person who creates IP, as well as someone who consumes quite a bit of it, in his every day work, i'm quite familiar with it.
all of that said, i'm not going to get bent out of shape over this. if kip/hans are willing to accept the explanation and apology, then it is what it is and it's not really our places to fight a fight for them they aren't interested in. it's their site to run and we're just guests here.
the "g" is for Greg...
- Kip
- The Administrator
- Posts: 35171
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
- CW-watches: 150
- LE-one: yes
- LE-two: yes
- LE-three: yes
- LE-foura: yes
- LE-fourb: yes
- LE-five: yes
- LE-six: yes
- LESeven: yes
- Location: New Hampshire, USA
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
I understand the intellectual property part of this..I really do!
I am sure that the parties involved probably do as well. In context, I see this as no more than a simple mistake where permissions where not asked or nor credit(source) given. If the credit is given I see the situation as corrected.
As I said..hopefully we all remember to follow protocol moving forward.
I am sure that the parties involved probably do as well. In context, I see this as no more than a simple mistake where permissions where not asked or nor credit(source) given. If the credit is given I see the situation as corrected.
As I said..hopefully we all remember to follow protocol moving forward.
Kip
"Asylum Administrator"
Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
"Asylum Administrator"
Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
- RustyinRochester
- Senior Guru
- Posts: 466
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:13 am
- CW-watches: 1
- Location: Southern shore of Lake Ontario, USA
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
Kip, I just got a flash of that famous scene in BLAZING SADDLES. I hope no one is cooking beans....Kip wrote:Tenth........Since the wagons are circled...how about somebody start a fire and I pass out some meds.
In the internet age, privacy is dead. And unfortunately, in some circles (other internet watch fora), sometimes good manners is also dead. I am a member of Watchfreaks, though more of a lurker and I think most of the members there are interested in watches and not doing anything nefarious. Different watch fora have different cultures and the CWL forum usually exhibits a bit more civility than most. That is why I joined here and like it. Most times, watch people who "borrow" from others online have no other m.o. than to pass along new or interesting info, or at least so I would like to believe.
This is all my opinion, of course, but my day job is Professor of Communication at a U.S. college.
"In comic strips, the person on the left always speaks first."
-George Carlin
-George Carlin
- BulldogMadi
- Junior
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:31 am
- CW-watches: 1
- Location: Irvine, California
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
I'm new to forum and my opinion wont mean much, but my 2 cents is that both of you guys have valid points. But honestly things get leak all the time whether or not they are intended, and people don't usually get prosecuted. People do what they want without consequence and continue to do it regardless of the possible damage it may cause. Despite the disagreement the prototypes look amazing and we all wait in anticipation of CW's new watches.
Kevin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C5 Malvern Automatic
Hamilton Khaki King Automatic
Lum-Tec Bull45 A7
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C5 Malvern Automatic
Hamilton Khaki King Automatic
Lum-Tec Bull45 A7
- tattoo chef
- Newbie
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:26 am
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
Wow.
So this is blown out of proportion.
Guys, you dont know me, so I am not going to come here accusing anyone, or casting aspersions.
I will say this, info and pics that were posted here(they were posted on Watchlords forum as well),
were posted on Watchfreeks, to show members what CW has upcoming.
NOTHING MORE.
The absence of a link, was not intentional. This is the CW forum, and being as such, and the pics and info were posted here, I figured CW would want it shared.
The link has been added to the post on watchfreeks, linking back to the original thread here.
So this is blown out of proportion.
Guys, you dont know me, so I am not going to come here accusing anyone, or casting aspersions.
I will say this, info and pics that were posted here(they were posted on Watchlords forum as well),
were posted on Watchfreeks, to show members what CW has upcoming.
NOTHING MORE.
The absence of a link, was not intentional. This is the CW forum, and being as such, and the pics and info were posted here, I figured CW would want it shared.
The link has been added to the post on watchfreeks, linking back to the original thread here.
- Kip
- The Administrator
- Posts: 35171
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
- CW-watches: 150
- LE-one: yes
- LE-two: yes
- LE-three: yes
- LE-foura: yes
- LE-fourb: yes
- LE-five: yes
- LE-six: yes
- LESeven: yes
- Location: New Hampshire, USA
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
Thanks for the response Don. No hard feelings here.
It is my hope that the our forums may continue to share information.
It is my hope that the our forums may continue to share information.
Kip
"Asylum Administrator"
Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
"Asylum Administrator"
Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
- Jimleymurmer
- Senior
- Posts: 140
- Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:37 pm
- CW-watches: 22
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
As a business owner I would dearly LOVE for my products to be shared far and wide. I spend an inordinate amount of time on Facebook and Twitter uploading what I hope is interesting content in the hope that someone shares it ie. Re-tweets or shares on FB. Even a 'like' on FB is appreciated. Amongst all the fuss I bet there's a cheery Chr.Ward delighted at the exposure.
- SillentWolf
- Senior Expert
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:39 am
- CW-watches: 1
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
I also use some photo's a few weeks ago, in mu own watch-topic on the Dutch HT-Forum.
There are 2 watch sections, in one of them; i give information about watches, straps, releases, concepts, and advise. etc. Above the pictures, Chris Wards name (or company name) is mentioned, and above all; that they are concept drawings.
I also use pictures of; Lum-Tec and Fraser Timepieces. I'm not only a (paying)member, of the largest watch forums (WatchUseek, and for instance: Watch Talk Forums), but i also have contact with the owners of those brands (inc. EHF Horlogere). Not to mention; i have clearance to use the pictures (from LT and for instance Fraser) but .... i have to mention the firm / company. Mostly i also name the owner and put a link at the posts.
I can honestly say; Lum-Tec has a nice group of Dutch fans, since i put photo's in the topics, and give information about releases, distributors, prices and the company. It go's both ways. I can use the pictures etc. and they got, what you can call free publicity. Also if the owners mails me something personal (such as Gordon Fraser, etc.), i keep it that way.
In the case of Fraser or EHF; they want feedback, and i (or for example; others) want Info. Especially social media or Forums are a really nice thing for this. If it's to personal, the mail me or send me a PM through the forums, where I'm a member (or the other way around). I think most people who are active on forums, or have own topics do it this way.
All the information on the net, all the published photo's ... are all free publicity. I really can say; some brands won't even exist, without people who doing this, as mentioned above or in other post before mine.
So i have no intention to use pictures the wrong way. Not from Lum-Tec, EHF, Christopher Ward ..
or another company. And what i said before; it's free publicity.
There are 2 watch sections, in one of them; i give information about watches, straps, releases, concepts, and advise. etc. Above the pictures, Chris Wards name (or company name) is mentioned, and above all; that they are concept drawings.
I also use pictures of; Lum-Tec and Fraser Timepieces. I'm not only a (paying)member, of the largest watch forums (WatchUseek, and for instance: Watch Talk Forums), but i also have contact with the owners of those brands (inc. EHF Horlogere). Not to mention; i have clearance to use the pictures (from LT and for instance Fraser) but .... i have to mention the firm / company. Mostly i also name the owner and put a link at the posts.
I can honestly say; Lum-Tec has a nice group of Dutch fans, since i put photo's in the topics, and give information about releases, distributors, prices and the company. It go's both ways. I can use the pictures etc. and they got, what you can call free publicity. Also if the owners mails me something personal (such as Gordon Fraser, etc.), i keep it that way.
In the case of Fraser or EHF; they want feedback, and i (or for example; others) want Info. Especially social media or Forums are a really nice thing for this. If it's to personal, the mail me or send me a PM through the forums, where I'm a member (or the other way around). I think most people who are active on forums, or have own topics do it this way.
All the information on the net, all the published photo's ... are all free publicity. I really can say; some brands won't even exist, without people who doing this, as mentioned above or in other post before mine.
So i have no intention to use pictures the wrong way. Not from Lum-Tec, EHF, Christopher Ward ..
or another company. And what i said before; it's free publicity.
- Axelay2003
- Senior
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:06 pm
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
Truthfully, the post on the Watchfreeks forum resulted in me joining this forum to learn more about CW watches. Being a long time member of Watchfreeks and reading quality and informative posts posted by Andrema and Tattoo Chef, I can honestly say that the CW posting had no bad intentions. Omission of where the pictures came from IMO was also unintentional. If Chris gave the green light to post the pictures here, that to me is indirectly stating that it is for the whole world to see. The bottom line is that I am one more CW fan and I will see a CW watch on my wrist in the future.
- MiniMpi
- Trusted Seller
- Posts: 37683
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:56 am
- CW-watches: 17
- Location: Cork, Ireland
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
WelcomeAxelay2003 wrote:Truthfully, the post on the Watchfreeks forum resulted in me joining this forum to learn more about CW watches. Being a long time member of Watchfreeks and reading quality and informative posts posted by Andrema and Tattoo Chef, I can honestly say that the CW posting had no bad intentions. Omission of where the pictures came from IMO was also unintentional. If Chris gave the green light to post the pictures here, that to me is indirectly stating that it is for the whole world to see. The bottom line is that I am one more CW fan and I will see a CW watch on my wrist in the future.
Looking forward to seeing which model you get.
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
Looking through this thread, it's hard to escape the notion that it should have ended with this post from Kip - whitty and diplomatic as always. "Blown out of all proportion" doesn't cover the half of it. Get out more lads .Kip wrote:Welcome to "The Asylum" tattoo chef!
Happy to have another "watchfreaks" member inside here.
No worries on the photos...I think it was just the lack of credit that miffed a bit. Alas...the power of the internet.
Thanks for correcting.
The ultimate goals are the same for both both forums. A place for freaks/inmates to gather and discuss watches.
Cheers,
Jack.
Re: chat with chris photos posted on watchfreaks
As far as I['m concerned, the matter was resolved after Watchfreaks added the appropriate link from this forum. No harm done, and I'm sure the initial omission of the link was inadvertent. I thought the initial hooha over the uncredited posting was a bit over the top, as if people were convinced the omission was more than a simple mistake. That's why I stayed out of it.
However, I'd like to address the subsequent posts that in effect say "well, CWL got good free publicity with the reposting of the preview pics from the chat, so it's all good, no one should object to all the reposting on other sites".
As far as CW is concerned, that's true.
However, I feel that it is only polite for another site/poster to acknowledge where the source of their info/pics came from (ie, the initial chat with CW on this forum, and then the relevant thread on the forum). This gives the recognition that it was another forum - the CW Forum - who got the "scoop" on this news.
I'm not looking at it from an IP law angle, but as part of web etiquette.
However, I'd like to address the subsequent posts that in effect say "well, CWL got good free publicity with the reposting of the preview pics from the chat, so it's all good, no one should object to all the reposting on other sites".
As far as CW is concerned, that's true.
However, I feel that it is only polite for another site/poster to acknowledge where the source of their info/pics came from (ie, the initial chat with CW on this forum, and then the relevant thread on the forum). This gives the recognition that it was another forum - the CW Forum - who got the "scoop" on this news.
I'm not looking at it from an IP law angle, but as part of web etiquette.
C5As~FLE12R~W61~C60GMT~FLE15~SC
Orion33/Tetra2~BallEH~Montblanc~Tudor BB36~Archimede36~Damasko~Revue T~BremontSolo37~MJW
Vintage~Bulova23~Polerouter~Wittnauer~Longines~Omega~Soumar~Eterna~Gruen
Quartz~Matisse~FLE17~Ebel~Citizen
Orion33/Tetra2~BallEH~Montblanc~Tudor BB36~Archimede36~Damasko~Revue T~BremontSolo37~MJW
Vintage~Bulova23~Polerouter~Wittnauer~Longines~Omega~Soumar~Eterna~Gruen
Quartz~Matisse~FLE17~Ebel~Citizen
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 4 Replies
- 409 Views
-
Last post by Tonywalker
-
- 6 Replies
- 313 Views
-
Last post by SimonGermany
-
- 10 Replies
- 368 Views
-
Last post by Amor Vincit Omnia
-
- 14 Replies
- 849 Views
-
Last post by Bahnstormer_vRS
-
- 0 Replies
- 307 Views
-
Last post by rosstcorbett