Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

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iain
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by iain »

Kip wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:34 pm ^^ Send it back. It is running to efficiently and seems to be giving you more than you deserve. It should only be giving you 56 hours. :lol:
That’s a very valid point Kip and something I’ve been giving some thought to since I completed my test. I measured the “free” time that CW were kindly donating to me at 1 hour. I didn’t measure it as accurately as Ferg, but I have still used 1 hour as the basis for my calculations below.

Of course the only way we can prevent me getting my “free” hour is to return the watch to CW for adjustment. At present they quote a 10 week time which is 1,680 hours (10 weeks x 7 days x 24 hours)

Now I will only get my “free” hour every time I let my watch run down, I don’t get it if I wear the watch continuously. Let’s assume I wear the watch for a few days, let it run down and I do this every week. I will therefore get 1 “free” hour per week from CW and In order to cancel out the 1,680 hours I would be “owed” by CW for the duration they had my watch, it will take 32.3 years. (1,680 hours in total / 52 hours per year).

Now of course we have to factor in a service every 5 years which again will take 1,680 hours each time. If I need 6 services in those 32.3 years then that is another 60 weeks I will be without my watch.

In order for this to be fair, CW need to give me enough “free” hours to cancel out the hours it would take them to reduce my power reserve. I calculate the time this will take at 1 hour per week, factoring in delays for service, to be to approximately 33.5 years.

I have therefore decided I will continue to enjoy my “free” hours, but in order to pay them back I will return my watch to CW in August 2056 to have the power reserve reduced to 56 hours.

Ferg, your watch only gives you 11 mins and 41 seconds “free” time. Now I don’t know what you used to measure that, but let’s assume it was on a watch that isn’t 100% accurate so your free time might actually be 12 minutes. (I can assure you that this error has been scientifically included to ensure accuracy and is in no way something to easily get your “free” time to 12 minutes just because that’s an easier number to work with)

As you are only getting 12 minutes “free” it will take you 5 times longer than me for CW to pay back the time, which is 167.5 years. Being the honest upstanding chap you are, I assume you will now be making a note on your 2190 calendar to send your watch off in the August of that year for rectification.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by JAFO »

I presume all movements should deliver more than the stated power reserve

Clearly CW and the movement manufacturer are warranting the duration of the power reserve. The PR is generally accorded a noticeable place in the specifications of a watch. In order to warrant or guarantee a PR of 56 hours, the watches ought to be delivering in excess of that to ensure the achieved PR does not dip below that.

In the same way a 300gm box of cornflakes is very likely to have more than 300gm, but not less. A source of great contention has always been the quantity of beer we get in a pint, and probably the amount of wine that constitutes a glass, especially as prices seem to gradually increase from affordable to luxury. Cars are a particular analogy where car makers allegedly appear to have set out to mislead buyers regarding the mpg efficiency of their cars.

So on reflection, a watch that should give 56 hours, but only gives 43, is either a very poor outlier, or maybe accidentally using the wrong movement.

I know earlier in the thread I said that I wasn't too fussed about whatever PR I got, and I would have been happy with 48. I would definitely trade a few hours of PR for a tighter accuracy. However, I do think the stated PR should be a minimum, not an average.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by OllyW »

I've started the return process this morning for the nearly new white C63 GMT I got in January from the Clearance sale.

It's time keeping has been erratic at best and has gradually got worse and was running at -29 seconds per day at the last check. I have suspected the auto winding has not been working correctly, so after a week on the winder I removed it and placed it in the watch box at 17:30 on the 1st March. I checked this morning and it had stopped at 23:00 last night, meaning it had only run for 29.5 hours.

It's a bit disappointing as I was going to use this watch for my holiday in Spain next month but I've also got the same watch in green so it looks like that one will be going instead.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by rkovars »

JAFO wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:42 am I presume all movements should deliver more than the stated power reserve

Clearly CW and the movement manufacturer are warranting the duration of the power reserve. The PR is generally accorded a noticeable place in the specifications of a watch. In order to warrant or guarantee a PR of 56 hours, the watches ought to be delivering in excess of that to ensure the achieved PR does not dip below that.

In the same way a 300gm box of cornflakes is very likely to have more than 300gm, but not less. A source of great contention has always been the quantity of beer we get in a pint, and probably the amount of wine that constitutes a glass, especially as prices seem to gradually increase from affordable to luxury. Cars are a particular analogy where car makers allegedly appear to have set out to mislead buyers regarding the mpg efficiency of their cars.

So on reflection, a watch that should give 56 hours, but only gives 43, is either a very poor outlier, or maybe accidentally using the wrong movement.

I know earlier in the thread I said that I wasn't too fussed about whatever PR I got, and I would have been happy with 48. I would definitely trade a few hours of PR for a tighter accuracy. However, I do think the stated PR should be a minimum, not an average.
Per the SW330-2 Datasheet: Min 50 hours. 56 Typical. CW should probably publish both numbers.

For completeness the SW330 and SW330-1 manuals only list 42 hours as the number. It is listed as running time with no qualifiers.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

rkovars wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:50 pm Per the SW330-2 Datasheet: Min 50 hours. 56 Typical. CW should probably publish both numbers.
Now that’s interesting. It would seem on initial reflection that CW are taking the optimistic approach, a bit like the car manufacturers who make extravagant claims for fuel economy provided that you drive everywhere at 30 miles an hour, don’t accelerate and don’t go up any hills. If 50 hours is the stated minimum from the movement manufacturer, then at 53.5 hours mine is within spec so I’m fine.

Whatever. @JAFO I do take your point about the guaranteed minimum, and if my watch was only delivering 43 hours I might get a bit stroppy, though it still wouldn’t matter too much to me personally because of the way in which I wear my watches. For a difference of 2.5 hours I have more important things to worry about. Interesting discussion, though.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by JAFO »

@Amor Vincit Omnia

Yes, I agree, As a result of this thread, I am now checking a watch with a PR meter to see how how long I do actually get, but I am not too fussed about the result. It has dropped from 100% to about 80% overnight, and it's not rebuilding back to 100%, but that's probably as a result of sedentary activities. Anyway, at the end of today, I will wind it fully, and see what I get. It's still spot on, but I know it loses time as the PR drops.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »


MiniMpi wrote: Just checked it there :
The GMT is great for working out AM/PM !
It stopped at 12:46:41 this afternoon, 2nd March, so it lasted exactly 56 hours and 11 minutes and 41 seconds ! :clap: 8) Image
Well happy with that and spot on for the quoted PR.
As the original owner (Nearly New from CW) of your Aquitaine, Ferg, I'm mightily relieved to know that it's a good 'un. :wink: :wink:

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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

@JAFO The other two I have tested out are the Speedy (spec 48h, actual 52h) and the C9SS (120/131). Both are hand wound and I would typically wear them for a week or so, therefore topping them up every day. When I tested the C9 it did lose significantly during the final few hours. But again, under my normal conditions that would never be an issue.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

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Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:24 pm As the original owner (Nearly New from CW) of your Aquitaine, Ferg, I'm mightily relieved to know that it's a good 'un. :wink: :wink:
As the second owner, who sold it to Ferg, I'm mightily relieved too! :)
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

^^^ is it any wonder I’m constantly losing track of which watches belong to whom!? :lol:
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by MiniMpi »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:20 pm ^^^ is it any wonder I’m constantly losing track of which watches belong to whom!? :lol:
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

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JAFO wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:46 pm @Amor Vincit Omnia

Yes, I agree, As a result of this thread, I am now checking a watch with a PR meter to see how how long I do actually get, but I am not too fussed about the result. It has dropped from 100% to about 80% overnight, and it's not rebuilding back to 100%, but that's probably as a result of sedentary activities. Anyway, at the end of today, I will wind it fully, and see what I get. It's still spot on, but I know it loses time as the PR drops.
Just an update. Overnight my power reserve has fallen to about 60% and as expected my watch is now running slightly slow, having lost 2 Seconds, and I know this will continue to lose time. So either I hand wind it, or I run around a bit, and try to get the PR back to 100%. I will handwind it fully this evening, and then let it run down.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

@JAFO

I'm intrigued to know what watch you are testing and therefore how many hours PR it should have (I don't see that you have mentioned it anywhere).

However, from what you have written so far, with the percentage reduction in PR per day I suspect it is a 5 day movement; handwound (as you have told us).

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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by JAFO »

@Bahnstormer_vRS

I didn't want to advertise the brand particularly, but it's an automatic COSC Tribus GMT. It just happens to be the only watch I have with a Power Reserve, which I find very useful. It's actually marked to 40, but the manual says 42hours minimum. The movement is a SOPROD C115. I've noted the gradual decline in accuracy commensurate with waning power previously. As we were discussing PR's I will wind it fully this evening, and see how long it actually lasts.
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Re: Not getting 56 hours with C63 GMT

Post by JAFO »

Well, my 42hr watch gave me 44.5hours

@Bident I am inclined to think your movement is an outlier on the low side, given the datasheet reference of 50hours mentioned by a bit earlier by @rkovars
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