Watches are quite interesting are they not ?

Although I have liked watches all my life I never really bothered much about what they were made of. Only old age has made me start to dig deeper a little later in life.

I was not sure what forum to post this in. I am linking it slightly to CWL but I guess this topic doesnt belong in the general discussion forum.

For the last few months I have had a thing about getting getting a Breitling Bentley 6.75. I think the watch is stunning. However I keep holding back because do I really need it ? I keep trying to justify to myself spending £4k on a watch. Im not poor but I am not rich either but I vowed before I die that I will have a real knock out watch. I have owned many watches over the years including quite a few Seiko's. My collection includes a Tag, A Longines and I even inherited a Rolex Air King but I never really had the urge to blow more than £1000 on a watch. Even spending £600 every few years or so on the likes of the Tag was a luxury. Only because I had better things to do with my money than buy watches. They only tell the time after all and although I liked a nice watch I was not besotted with them.

Well Im older now and I guess I am changing. The interest is getting deeper. Now all this talk from CWL about bringing quality to the masses etc has got me actually starting to consider what a watch is made of including the movement rather than just price, brand and how likely it is to perhaps impress people. Yes I have a thing about getting a Breitling Bentley. I have done for the last couple of years. The day was getting closer but all this talk about quality vs price got me to do some research and I am actually quite shocked at what I find.

If this website is to be believed

http://www.breitlingsource.com/watch_de ... ey_42.html

my " Dream " Watch uses the ETA 2892 movement. Okay I am not a movement snob or anything so it should not really matter. However if this site is correct

http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html

Then I can buy that movement for $170

I will say it again

$170

Now although the 6.75 looks stunning just where on earth does the price of £4000+ come from ?

That means I am buying a very nice looking time piece that must cost no more than $500 to manufacture. Even doubling the price for a 100% profit mark up I should be able to pick up that watch for well under £1000. Well I am shocked and the Breitling can now go and take a run and jump. I will not be buying it now, no way. Geeez I would have thought at that retail price that the Bentley would have a pretty stunning movement. Its like buying a Bentley Continental GT and putting in a a Ford Focus 1600cc engine into it. How many millionaires would buy that ??? Not bloody many.

Im quite shocked actually.

No wonder there are so many Breitling fakes around the world. It looks as though the real thing is a " fake " itself. I would be as well buying a replica ( cough cough ) and fitting that cheap ETA movement to it. I guess it proves that CWL are on the right track after all. Lets hope that Chris over the coming years gives us some good models, with quality for a decent price. For the price of the Breitling I could easily have 20 CWL's.

There you go Chris. I want to see 20 different models in your line up then I can send my £4k in your direction instead.

Perfect example of why people buy CW watches. And why CW's business model allows us to do so. Remember though, and I didn't read the link material, often times base movements are purchased then upgraded with complication improvements or decoration. A base movement generally doesn't cost that much. Not sure if the Breitling your looking at includes any such improvements.

Just for me, if I ever venture to the next tier of watches (over 1K, less than 5k) in order to feel like I'm getting proper value, the movement will likely be made in house. I've recently been lusting after a Rollie GMT Master ll. There are also other makers that fit into this category.

I've said before and I think most CW buyers fall into the same mindset, I'm not cheap, I just want value.

Example: I went bedroom furniture shopping today. One place I could get more than I need (like 6 pcs.) for ~1300. This place was a step above IKEA I suppose. I decide to drop by Ethan Allen. They are kind of the low end of high end furniture. It's decent stuff, solid woods, well made. But here's what I didn't know about them. After I purchase, they will deliver and set up. The designer will come to my place and measure everything, and if I want, make drawings and design the entire room including paint for the walls. All at no charge. The other place wanted to charge me for dropping off their particle board.
Tonight I'll be taking the room measurements to fax to EA in the morning. Mainly because I see the value in spending more there.

El Tiempo wrote:Not sure if the Breitling your looking at includes any such improvements.

From what I can see, it looks like Breitling has added at least the chronograph and big date complications to the base movement. I don't know what else. The chronograph is a pretty serious complication. It does beg the question, why not just use an ETA 2894-2 and add a big date to it? Seems like it would have saved a lot. But then again, you can't charge as much for that, can you? I mean, if you decide to operate on a 400% markup, do you want to markup on a $1000 watch, or a $5000 watch?

I like watches in all price-ranges, my most expensive ones are a Rolex GMT II and a Breitling Navitimer. They where expensive, but I like to think I bought them smart, and if I want/need I can easily sell them for at least te price I paid for. The GMT is amazing, has been running +1/day for years and I am a bit of a movement-freak, I love the very specific sound this movement makes. The Navitimer has a modified Valjoux 7750, not a real in-house movement, but I like it still the same and if you study the watch, every detail is beautifully made.
In the midrange, say around $600-$1200 I also have great watches like Nomos, Fortis, Revue Thommen, etc. With exception of the Nomos they are not with in-house movements, but for me they are still great value for money.
The lower price-range was for me the most difficult to find a satisfying watch, I have tried brands like Seiko, Poljot and others, but the finish of details was always poor. Well, you guys know what happened then, I discovered CW and found my first watch in this price-range with amazing quality....

Hans wrote:I have tried brands like Seiko, Poljot and others, but the finish of details was always poor.

Can you give us an idea of what kinds of things you see that are poorly done? I have never noticed anything on a Seiko or Citizen that seem like poor finishing, but then I don't know what you are looking for. And I have read others saying the same type of thing, but don't know what they are referring to either.

Thanks.

O.k., lets take the Seiko SNKE01K for example, if I compare it with my other watches this is what I notice immediately without a loupe:

- The mechanical calibre 7S26 can not be regulated very well, it is fluctuating between +9 - +17 a day with no room for improvement
- The movement can not hack, making it more difficult to sync the time
- The SNKE01K comes with a glass-back but the movement is very ugly, rotor and bridge have a hidious finish
- The metal bracelet is inflexible and a bit rough
- the end-links of the strap have a slightly different shape then the lugs resulting in a non-perfect fit
- the luminous material on the dial is not distributed very regular

Don't get me wrong, I still like the watch, and you can get one for around $130,- but the quality is not comparible with that of the watches in the other price-ranges I describe.

You quite often find that 12 is in a general 12 position, not quite centered where the hands go to at 12 - I've noticed that in a few Seikos and it bugs me as they are not "cheap" watches - even my throw away Casios manage this!

Some Seiko's do have nice bracelets, but you have to try hard to find one IMHO and generally it is what improves the most as you go up in the range!

To me the strap of bracelet is as important as the rest of the watch, if you look at Tag their first watch with a decent strap is the Link which costs about double what their entry level watches do.

Just my opinion - and also to be fair I have not looked closely at a new Seiko for a few years.

Hans wrote:O.k., lets take the Seiko SNKE01K for example, if I compare it with my other watches this is what I notice immediately without a loupe:

- The mechanical calibre 7S26 can not be regulated very well, it is fluctuating between +9 - +17 a day with no room for improvement

I wasn't aware that the 7S26 could not be regulated well. I have not seen any photos of one. Can it be regulated at all? But I am not sure I could call that a finish quality either.

Hans wrote: - The movement can not hack, making it more difficult to sync the time

I know the movement cannot hack, but I would consider that more of a feature than finish quality. But, ok.

Hans wrote: - The SNKE01K comes with a glass-back but the movement is very ugly, rotor and bridge have a hidious finish

I don't have any Seiko's with an exhibition back, and since I haven't seen what the movement looks like, I can't comment except to say it seems like they wouldn't put an exhibition back on an ungly movement. But, I would consider an ugly movement a finish quality issue. I just think you wouldn't showcase it with an exhibition back.

Hans wrote: - The metal bracelet is inflexible and a bit rough

My Citizen bracelet is pretty inflexible, so I know what you mean there. I have to lay it on its side because of this. But, what do you mean by the bracelet being rough? I assume the metal is nicely polished because all I have seen are.

Hans wrote: - the end-links of the strap have a slightly different shape then the lugs resulting in a non-perfect fit
- the luminous material on the dial is not distributed very regular

Do you have any images highlighting either of these issues so I can have a better idea of how much we are talking about?

Thanks.

No images Joe, but I can make them if needed. Most people would probably never notice the imperfections I am talking about, and would say that I am a "miereneuker" (that's Dutch for somebody who pays attention to the smallest details in a unpleasant way, literal translation would be ant-**** (Dutch is such a beautiful language ))
Still, if I examine my Rolex GMT or the movement of my Nomos Tangomat the lack of imperfections gives me great pleasure...

Hi Terminator,

I think that any luxury item with the name Bentley is going to at least double the asking price, especially when it is from a renowned high end manufacturer.

It's like in audio, a few years ago Mclaren made some kit with Tag - it did sound very good but other suppliers sounded as good (actually sometimes better to me) and cost less than half as much. It's a lifestyle that they are selling, not the product.

As for the finding of the movement I think that you will find that it's similar in quite a few high end watches - sometimes the bracelets cost as much as the actual watch, and the more you look into it the more you can see that you are being ripped off!

In my experience if you want to get something and can afford to then do it, but do NOT look too closely later I don't mean don't look at the quality, but don't scratch below the surface, it's not always pretty!

At least you've done it before you bought the watch - maybe we should have a competition to find as nice / nicer watch that won't upset you for around the same amount of money