We are a full electric household which was daunting at first but now we are a couple of years in I’m not sure we would go back to an ICE vehicle. We are fortunate to have access to a home charger on a cheap rate so the fuel savings and the convenience of not going to the petrol station every week is great.

We don’t do huge miles but I do the occasional longer trip to the north-west from the midlands which is about a 200 mile round trip. I’ve only had to charge once or twice during those trips and it was pretty convenient. I think the biggest mindset shift in this situation is to only charge to what you need to get home. When I’ve stopped it’s been for no longer than 10 minutes to a quick charge then back on the road again rather than filling to 100%.

Stif wrote:...and if you want to expand the search a bit, alternatives similar to the Elroq worth considering include the Kia Niro, the Hyundai Kona, BYD Atto and Volvo EX30.

Thanks for the alternative suggestions. I'll take a look.

As to fast charging close to home within a 5 mile radius, several Supermarkets now have a bank of EV charging points, larger Council Car Park have them, including 30 bays at the local Railway Station (never fully used), plus there is now a GridServe forecourt, 24 fast chargers, 4 Tesla super chargers, on the A1(M).

Guy

Sent from my Galaxy S23 Ultra using Tapatalk

scooter wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:48 am I bought my self charging hybrid 2020 Toyota Yaris when a few months old and with 471 miles on the clock.

I love it and so does my wallet.

Glad to hear you are still enjoying your Yaris. I’m very impressed with your recordkeeping, I’m just far too undisciplined to even begin something like that.

I’m also impressed with your average fuel consumption, which seems lower than mine. I guess it depends to some extent on where, when and how you drive.

Redpat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 12:48 pm Thanks @Stif , that's me told.

I think it was a good list of challenges Pat, and as I said hope it didn't come across negatively!

I think things have improved a lot very quickly in recent years as EVs have become much more mainstream and some big hitters like VW have built new platforms to build their cars on.

I'd still probably suggest looking for alternatives if you can't charge at home though (unless you have very good, and well priced charging infrastructure nearby!) but it's surprising how other things (especially car price and battery degradation!) have improved so quickly.

There are lots of headlines about massive depreciation on EVs, but the reality is nobody is paying list price for them (and surely massive depreciation is a reason to buy something nearly new for a huge discount... are they too expensive or too cheap )

tikkathree wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 1:31 pm I''m conflicted about the whole nonsense of EVs being the salvation of the planet.

here are my thoughts on this. one of the main benefits to me of EV over ICE is that an EV is energy source neutral. an ICE can *ONLY* be powered by gasoline, so it's limited. the EV can be powered by nuclear, solar, hydro, coal, whatever it takes to generate electricity. in the longer term, that's just a better place to be than ICE. it gives us flexibility in how we generate the energy.

Stif wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 1:27 pm

Redpat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 12:48 pm Thanks @Stif , that's me told.

I think it was a good list of challenges Pat, and as I said hope it didn't come across negatively!

I think things have improved a lot very quickly in recent years as EVs have become much more mainstream and some big hitters like VW have built new platforms to build their cars on.

I'd still probably suggest looking for alternatives if you can't charge at home though (unless you have very good, and well priced charging infrastructure nearby!) but it's surprising how other things (especially car price and battery degradation!) have improved so quickly.

There are lots of headlines about massive depreciation on EVs, but the reality is nobody is paying list price for them (and surely massive depreciation is a reason to buy something nearly new for a huge discount... are they too expensive or too cheap )

Thanks @Stif . Certainly didn't come across negative. It's good to have your thinking challenged by someone with first hand experience and knowledge. Just like with my watch journey too.

I worked in the sustainability sector 12 years ago and I should know better. Things move on quickly. I think the problem id I'm honest is that im a biker and a petrol head at heart. Still, never say never. Especially when I may not have a choice in the not to distant future!

Thanks again

Pat

tikkathree wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 1:31 pm I''m conflicted about the whole nonsense of EVs being the salvation of the planet.

Interesting point @tikkathree and I purposely didn't go anywhere near the environmental impact in my posts, but the initial driver for me going EV almost 8 years ago was actually driven by air quality. (The best thing for the environment would be shifting more to bikes and public transport rather than personal cars...)

An EV's pollution is mainly concentrated in two places (please ignore this massive oversimplification:
1. The factory it's built in.
2. Wherever the electricity is generated.

For ICE cars a massive amount of their pollution is generated in the car and pumped out it's exhaust.

My eldest son had pretty bad asthma and it drove me mad seeing parents dropping their kids at school whilst leaving their engines running right outside the school gates - make no mistake about it, internal combustion cars pump out poison into our streets, which does directly affect all of us.

Going back to the two points above - EVs generate more pollution in manufacture, but on point 2 as electricity generation gets greener, so does your individual footprint (living in Scotland and charging overnight the majority of my 'fuel' is generated by the wind...)

I''m conflicted about the whole nonsense of EVs being the salvation of the planet.

No, they aren't going to save the planet. Unless and until population growth is curtailed, this is just "re-arranging the deckchairs". I'm firmly in the ICE camp. I have two cars and I change my "new" one when it basically falls apart. My 45 year old Land Rover has poor fuel economy, but I would still argue that it's more environmentally friendly than buying an EV from China. It takes MANY years to overcome the environmental impact of production of every new car (EV or not) - and they don't come from China on a sailing ship do they?

The part of the country where I live has a lot of terraced houses. Some of them have double yellow lines outside. People park where they can, I may be a bit dim but I cannot see how these people (some with more than one car per household) are going to be able to charge their cars. I've heard suggestions about using lamp posts, but there aren't enough are there?

So no, I've no intention of buying an EV.

I wouldn't buy one either, two reasons, No1...I live in a cul-de-sac with no pavements or driveways so I wouldn't be able to charge it up and No2...they're just to quiet.

When my BMW X5 40i xDrive M Sport was in for some warranty work I was leant a fully electric BMW M Sport saloon, the power and acceleration was incredible in sport mode but it was just quiet, no noise whatsoever.

I've just treated myself to a brand new petrol BMW X5 M60i LCI M Sport, 4.4L V8 530bhp with a 40bhp boost if needed from the 48V self charging mild hybrid battery.

A few thoughts from someone who uses a car for work and a different one for days out.

On the environmental benefits:

The main justification for EVs seems to focus on carbon emissions. We are told that the lifetime CO2 footprint of an EV is significantly lower than an ICE car. Read the small print though, and you'll see a little asterisk followed by "based on manufacture using a typical EU energy mix" . How many EV battery factories are there in Europe? None. How much of a European built car is actually manufactured in China? Lots. How green is China's energy mix? Not as green as Europe's. (See also "Trust")

The "Lifetime" bit. Battery degradation is a function of charge cycles, charge speeds, thermal management and age. Batteries deteriorate even when they are doing nothing. Realistically, many EVs will be useless by the time they are 10-12 years old. I live in a relatively well off area and a large proportion of the cars around here are beyond 20 years old. Still perfectly serviceable with a little TLC. So to cover the same lifespan with EVs, multiply the manufacturer footprint by 1.5 or 2.

Efficiency. The miles per KW ratings of EVs are very much exaggerated by WLTP tests, these figures (lies) are being used as part of the justification for EVs. Add in the weight of many EVs, moving more mass = using more energy.

So there may be an environmental benefit (certainly in local air quality in densely trafficked areas) the CO2 reduction benefit is feeling exaggerated.

On trust:

The arguments are full of holes, but the governments are still pushing the agenda. It seems that we are killing our economy to offset carbon generated in making electric cars in China. I can't see the money trail, but something doesn't smell right.

As someone with a good grasp of science and engineering, I can't shake the feeling that small and light ICE cars are overall less environmentally damaging than large heavy EVs.

On costs:

EV prices are coming down, but the loss of the domestic automotive industry and it's support industries may reduce buying power / degrade the economy.

If you can charge at home, costs per mile are good for smaller EVs. The public charging infrastructure is subject to large price variations. A friend added £47 of electricity to his Etron (no sniggering from the French speakers at the back) . He was expecting to see around 160 motorway miles from that. My "fun" car would easily cover 220 motorway miles on the same value of super unleaded.

On fitting it into your life:

What is the most valuable commodity in your life? Time has to be near the top for most. The most valuable time is when you are enjoying yourself. A great day out, a trip across the continent, a touring holiday. All things that would, IMO be less great if you are having to factor in charging. As for a driving holiday, those road trips with great friends in great cars, well an EV version of that is going to be a sad affair on many levels.

On performance:

Some EVs have an impressive turn of acceleration, the initial step off can feel impressive. The mass can be made to move quickly and change direction accurately, but weight, however well disguised, will always dull the driver's enjoyment.

On refinement:

EVs are quiet, so is my Samsung washing machine. 'Nuff said.

My personal take is that I may be tempted to try an EV as a work car (driver training) if I can find a cheap one that does 200 miles on a non battery stressing charge. A car for pleasure use though? The arguments for are too weak for me, I value my time far too much to waste it at charging points. Besides, I'm addicted to the hit when the supercharger is ramming air into the V8!

Still loving life with our (second) Mach-E. I wouldn't go back to an ICE vehicle now. Just don't call it a Mustang. Silly Ford branding aside - genuinely the best car I've owned, and the only one I've owned two in succession of. My wife has replaced her heavily modified hot hatch with an Abarth 500e now too. Friends and family ask questions and repeat the nonsense they've read or heard, but the reality is very different. It's refreshing being able to educate and fact check based on thousands of miles of real world family use.

It's just so easy living without all the hassle of maintaining and fuelling an ICE vehicle. It's also so much simpler than our old cars in the more extreme weather and remotely warming or cooling as needed to ferry kids or commute.

I have noticed some drivers of ICE vehicles are very anti-EV on the road. Sign of the partisan times I guess. I also see a lot of white Teslas being driven in a style I've aligned to fleet drivers of BMW and Audi in the past. Ho hum. EVs are definitely mainstream now, with a Tesla no different to EVs than Apple is to the smartphone.

Everyone's needs will be different. If anything, price is likely the most obvious factor. Depreciation seems to be horrific for new car buyers, but fortunately the used market is now full of great deals making going electric only mildly more expensive than ICE alternatives. Then there's charging - if not done at home, while sleeping, a quick pit stop on a long journey means a toilet trip, a quick browse in the shop or deal with the kids/dog's needs, then back on the road again. We've actually had to hurry the kids up eating lunch in fear of being charged overstay charges!

Thanks for all the contributions, to date, both for and against EVs.

The personal experiences and thoughts have been great to read, with the discussion for and against EVs swinging like a pendulum on a post by post basis.

For me? The jury is still out; I'm receptive to the positives of EVs but as Pete @tikkathree suggested, like him I'm a bit of a ICE dinosaur.

Overall there's no rush for me to decide; I'm probably six months off being in a position to buy and, as a result of my garage visit today the Skoda Elroq much as it has received the plaudits and awards, is not a car for me.

Why? The main downside is I felt the seating was not right for me. I'm used to, and arguably need, the 'sit up' seating position of an SUV. Okay, the Elroq is the size and style of an SUV, but with the floor raised by 4 - 6 inches to accommodate the battery below, the seating becomes very 'normal car' like. I found I had to raise the drivers seat up quite a way to get a suitable driving position, but more importantly rear passengers have a very 'knees up' seating position (something that is not ideal for passengers I carry on my Community Transport volunteer driving). Objectively, the rear seats are more roomy / comfortable in my Ateca.

So, for now, the search continues, or maybe I should stick with the Ateca?

Guy

PS> On point worth mentioning, that I picked up some time ago, for those that are strongly biased against EVs on a range anxiety basis; take a look at Nissan / Renault. They have EVs that are 100% electric for motive power i.e. battery with electric motor, BUT the battery is 100% charged by a petrol powered ICE i.e. refuel as required at the local petrol station (of which there are many).

jtc wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 1:08 am fear of being charged overstay charges!

I forgot to mention the increased risk / worry off falling prey to parking enforcement parasites

Leaving aside the economic and environmental questions, and the practicalities of charging, and focusing on the driving experience…

Relaxed, stress-free, quiet?

Boring, anodyne, “too quiet**”?

Chacun à son goût.

** I was a bit surprised by that one but, thinking it through, if you like a bit of excitement or thrill with your driving then I guess the noise is part of it. I remember reading somewhere about a campaign to have some kind of noisemaking device fitted to EVs to make them safer in areas with a lot of pedestrians.