Thank you to all of you, for your very interesting and well reasoned responses to this topic.

Even though I remain very unconvinced about the merits of moving to electric powered vehicles, I took note of the arguments given in favour of them, and I will give more thought to it.

The comments from PaulJS above, struck a particular chord with me, and far from being cynical, I think he hit a couple of nails on the head. Especially his points 1 and 2.

When it comes to governments driving demand via legislation or propaganda, who is old enough to remember the UK, TV adverts of the day, at the time when new Nuclear Power was borne?

Electricity was promoted to be so cheap via nuclear power, that it would not be cost effective to even bother measuring domestic consumption. It was promised to be effectively free to domestic consumers. Completely free electricity, Wow! What a load of utter balder dash that turned out to be!

On a separate note, consider electricity when used for UK domestic heating, compared to using mains Gas or Heating Oil.

I think we might all agree that the electric heating appliances will be significantly more efficient in pure %age terms. If an electric heater emits no sound or light, and has no moving parts, it will operate close to 100% efficiency. A modern traditional gas or oil boiler will be much less efficient than this, say from 85% to 95%, with energy losses going outside the home.

So, why is it that if I switched from my traditional Gas or Oil boiler, to maximum efficiency, all electric heating, my heating costs would go through the roof?

If fossil fuel supplies such as Oil, Natural Gas, Diesel, Petrol (Gasoline), Coal and others do indeed get vilified, as seems to be happening.....

Just wait and see what happens to the unit price of electric energy, once that there is no alternative to electricity, for power in our homes and cars.

I say, keep all options open, and then folks can choose what best suits them.

We should not underestimate the pure pleasure gained from driving a car that has a traditional naturally aspirated V8 Petrol Engine. The way things are going, this might become a pleasure of the past. So, be careful what you wish for...

I reckon we’ll be forced away from the current situation that sees cars being affordable by the masses. We’ll end up with a situation akin to flying. Wealthy folks will own their own or buy a share, some of us will hire on a need by need basis and the rest will use public transport.
Or...
Who knows, the way things are heading, you may use an app to call a driverless pod, that will arrive at your home on it’s own. You’ll climb in and enter your post/zip code into a terminal and it’ll drive you to your destination while you read your kindle. Once you get out, it’ll move on to the next customer.

Sorry if you’re a taxi driver!

Picking up on one of Craig’s points, regarding the relative costs of the different fuels on offer, interestingly, my company recently installed a Cogen plant. That is to say, a rather large (20 cylinder) natural gas fired engine, that kicks out 33MW of electricity. That’s great while gas is cheaper but if more factories go down this route and as gas reserves are depleted, we’ll be switching it off and running from the power grid again because the price of gas is bound to go up!

I wouldn't buy one at the moment for all the common reasons, range charging times etc. Probably ok if you do short urban journeys and charge at home. My issue is that with around 32 million cars in the uk I don't think electric cars are scalable. Imagine the M1 on a bank holiday how many cars refuel per hour? Imagine each requiring around 45 minutes for a modest charge how many charging points will be needed to prevent the queue blocking the motorway. What if you have no driveway to park your car or live in a tower block? The technology needs to improve. Or we have to change our attitude to personal transport. Electric driverless taxis in urban areas. Electric trains for long distance travel and so on. Hydrogen fuel cells cars are scalable but are more complex than electric cars and producing hydrogen at the moment is expensive. But use green electricity to get hydrogen by electrolysis would be cheaper. Governments being over-optomistic.

Can you imagine a city of millions all driving electric cars and the grid is down? Scary.

I just can’t imagine the limited range. No use for me.

I have loved the two PHEV's i have owned. The Mitsubishi Outlander was a great family car but expensive for the level of build quality especially the paintwork. I currently have the Mini Countryman and it is brilliant, i have just done 5k miles and have an average of 110mpg. this morning i got 24 miles from pure EV. i charge it at home on a normal 3 pin plug and it costs about a £1 i then charge it at work for free. i live 25 miles from the office so fill up with petrol very very rarely. if i could stretch to a Tesla i'd have one in a heartbeat.

golfjunky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:04 am I have loved the two PHEV's i have owned. The Mitsubishi Outlander was a great family car but expensive for the level of build quality especially the paintwork. I currently have the Mini Countryman and it is brilliant, i have just done 5k miles and have an average of 110mpg. this morning i got 24 miles from pure EV. i charge it at home on a normal 3 pin plug and it costs about a £1 i then charge it at work for free. i live 25 miles from the office so fill up with petrol very very rarely. if i could stretch to a Tesla i'd have one in a heartbeat.

Is that your only car or do you have a petrol vehicle in the family too?

My wife has a Hybrid Toyota Yaris. The Mini has a turbocharged 1.5ltr petrol engine, together with the electric it produces 224bhp.

This mornings drive

I'd definitely have one for local runs. I have an electric scooter and that's amazing (although currently illegal in the UK!).

I believe cars have a bleak future, however they are fuelled. I don’t think us as individuals will have a choice.

golfjunky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:04 am I have loved the two PHEV's i have owned. The Mitsubishi Outlander was a great family car but expensive for the level of build quality especially the paintwork. I currently have the Mini Countryman and it is brilliant, i have just done 5k miles and have an average of 110mpg. this morning i got 24 miles from pure EV. i charge it at home on a normal 3 pin plug and it costs about a £1 i then charge it at work for free. i live 25 miles from the office so fill up with petrol very very rarely. if i could stretch to a Tesla i'd have one in a heartbeat.

24 miles of electric only range would probably provide for 70-80% of my driving, and close to 100% of my wifes driving. Can you charge the battery completely while at the office, or overnight at home?
Mini currently doesn't sell a hybrid in Canada (although the Mini Electric is coming apparently), but with 224hp combined, I imagine it's a decently spirited drive when you want it to be. I'd give some consideration to a PHEV Mini Cooper if spec'ed with the same powerplant.

Lavaine wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am but with 224hp combined, I imagine it's a decently spirited drive when you want it to be.

This is the delusion with electric cars. Use the power for any length of time and the battery will give maybe 5% of the quoted range, not to mention probably overheating.

I see Teslas on the autobahn once in a while. They're the ones in the inside lane doing 50mph with the trucks while everybody else hammers by.

One of my students (he is an engineer) has a neighbour with a Tesla. Midwinter he can't make it from Bernau to Munich, a distance of 60 miles.

You are being sold snake oil.

H0rati0 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:49 am

Lavaine wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am but with 224hp combined, I imagine it's a decently spirited drive when you want it to be.

This is the delusion with electric cars. Use the power for any length of time and the battery will give maybe 5% of the quoted range, not to mention probably overheating.

I see Teslas on the autobahn once in a while. They're the ones in the inside lane doing 50mph with the trucks while everybody else hammers by.

One of my students (he is an engineer) has a neighbour with a Tesla. Midwinter he can't make it from Bernau to Munich, a distance of 60 miles.

You are being sold snake oil.

Sounds extreme, considering there are software options to help (warning the battery pack before the journey, setting a range mode etc).

Lavaine wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:04 am

golfjunky wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:04 am I have loved the two PHEV's i have owned. The Mitsubishi Outlander was a great family car but expensive for the level of build quality especially the paintwork. I currently have the Mini Countryman and it is brilliant, i have just done 5k miles and have an average of 110mpg. this morning i got 24 miles from pure EV. i charge it at home on a normal 3 pin plug and it costs about a £1 i then charge it at work for free. i live 25 miles from the office so fill up with petrol very very rarely. if i could stretch to a Tesla i'd have one in a heartbeat.

24 miles of electric only range would probably provide for 70-80% of my driving, and close to 100% of my wifes driving. Can you charge the battery completely while at the office, or overnight at home?
Mini currently doesn't sell a hybrid in Canada (although the Mini Electric is coming apparently), but with 224hp combined, I imagine it's a decently spirited drive when you want it to be. I'd give some consideration to a PHEV Mini Cooper if spec'ed with the same powerplant.

Hi bud, yes it takes max 5hrs from empty to a full charge. of course if you hammered it for any length of time then it uses more of the battery, same as a car uses more fuel when you put your foot down, a benefit of heavy braking though is the re-gen of the battery. its the Cooper s version with the JCW pack so nice and sporty even though its a big car for a mini. This is my 4th year of PHEV ownership and its been brilliant. if you do not already subscribe i suggest watching some of the 'Fully Charged' vids on youtube. i call BS on 99% of the EV scare stories