The Golf Topic

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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by magicman »

village wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:52 pm
magicman wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:48 pm

Was the rebuild a direct result of having lessons, or is it something you worked out on the range ?

Regards Steve
Lessons.
My swing had deteriorated and I’d built in some weird actions to compensate. Unless you really know what you are doing then you can’t fix this yourself and definitely end the help of a pro. They can see immediately what is going wrong and teach you in steps.
I would definitely recommend lessons over YouTube videos!
Yeah, I agree, I've done as much tinkering as I need to on the range, I definitely have some bad habits and I think I'll get some lessons next year, to see what I'm doing right and wrong.
I've just got to find the right teacher.

Regards Steve
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by Mikkei4 »

Unfortunately I've picked up a relatively minor injury but it prevented me playing a few days ago and will continue to do so probably until mid-January.

As I was a bit bored I went through the posts on this topic to see how many contributors there were. We have 22 fairly regular contributors (I think) - I don't know if that's a decent percentage from the overall number of Forum members or if there's any golfers yet to contribute?

I think we have 7/22 that are not England based (USA, Canada, Europe, Australia etc etc), 5/22 Northern, NI or Scotland based, 8/22 Southern or South East England based and 2/22 I can't make out due to non-specific Locations.

When the thread first started in May I posted that I'd be happy to meet anybody for a round of golf during the Summer but got no takers. Golfers are meant to be social friendly people aren't we? Be able to play against/with anybody due to the handicapping system and now we also have course ratings that level out our playing abilities?

I'm sure none of us are desperately trying to find people to play with but I find it interesting to occasionally play outside my normal groups as we all have something that can help somebody else's game or on other courses so I'll offer again - from Spring 2022 onwards (COVID permitting) I'd be happy to meet for a round. Obviously being South UK based this would probably mean Oxfordshire. Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Essex and Kent and we have up to 8 people potentially but nobody is excluded if you happen to be coming down South or across from USA/Europe etc anytime.

No need to answer yet and no commitment as we have to get through a few horrible winter months yet but keep it in mind.
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by magicman »

Hello there

I have a full bag of newish clubs, with the exception of my putter.
A mallet style Nike Method Matter, I've owned said putter for a good few years, and it's been pretty decent, but this year I've been missing a lot if 4-8 ft Putts.
I watched, many YouTube videos and decided a new Putter and probably a fitting was required.
So I asked for money for Christmas, to do just that in the new year.
But in the last 3 or 4 rounds, something clicked and my Putting seemed to be decent again.

Has anyone had a putting lesson or changed there putter, with good effect ? If so what way did you go, blade , Mallet, those great big ones that look like the starship enterprise ?
I'm not after dramatic drops in scores, but a few shots a round would make a lot of difference, in my group.
Or should I stick with the now, but not always trusty Nike ?

Along with Mikkei4, I wouldn't mind a meet up, so next season maybe a game could be arranged.

All the best Steve
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by BobMunro »

magicman wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:34 am Hello there

I have a full bag of newish clubs, with the exception of my putter.
A mallet style Nike Method Matter, I've owned said putter for a good few years, and it's been pretty decent, but this year I've been missing a lot if 4-8 ft Putts.
I watched, many YouTube videos and decided a new Putter and probably a fitting was required.
So I asked for money for Christmas, to do just that in the new year.
But in the last 3 or 4 rounds, something clicked and my Putting seemed to be decent again.

Has anyone had a putting lesson or changed there putter, with good effect ? If so what way did you go, blade , Mallet, those great big ones that look like the starship enterprise ?
I'm not after dramatic drops in scores, but a few shots a round would make a lot of difference, in my group.
Or should I stick with the now, but not always trusty Nike ?

Along with Mikkei4, I wouldn't mind a meet up, so next season maybe a game could be arranged.

All the best Steve
Hi Steve

I used the same blade putter for years (Wilson) and I do mean years!! If yours is now behaving itself then perhaps stick with it.

That said, I treated myself to a new set of clubs this year (TaylorMade SIM 2) and also bought a TaylorMade Spider EX putter to go with them. The results were pretty amazing with the new putter so perhaps faithfulness to old favourites is misplaced! Of course most of it is psychological (as with the whole game of golf) but it has added an extra degree of confidence.

I too would be up for a meet up next year.
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by magicman »

^^^ Thanks Bob

Just had a thought, if I spend big bucks on a useless putter, I'll get more use out of it.

Regards Steve
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by Kip »

Putting is such an individual part of the game yet so very important.

I had putting instruction many years ago and was told that how you grip and stand is not as important as the consistency of your stroke and the proper club position at impact. How a given putter feels in you hands relates to the consistency and confidence of the stroke. Alignment and green reading are separate issues.

My first putter was a blade. I soon switched to a mallet that I loved and used for years. One day I tried a new mallet (I wasn't looking for a new putter) and it just clicked. It felt like an extension of my arms. I took about a dozen strokes with it and bought it immediately. It was love at first use! It is an Odyssey toe balanced putter. That and practice stepped up my putting game tremendously.

My suggestion is to just keep testing different putters until you find one that just feels right. You will know when you find it. When you find it the rest is practice regarding stroke consistency, alignment, distance and speed control plus green reading (my weakest area).
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by magicman »

Thanks Kip

Re. Your green reading, maybe you should go out with a level and map the Greens out, I only found out about this recently, and I believe it's been stopped in the pro game.
I have a green beam laser and those dark afternoons may be perfect weather for it, a winter pursuit.

Not sure how much impact it will have at top level, surely, the greens on championship courses will have been mapped many times over the years, and not changed much.
And anyone who hasn't done so, would most likely be able to source it, from someone who has.

Regards Steve
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Re: The Golf Topic

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Steve,

Thanks for posting re. your putter situation, I hope you didn’t mind me suggesting you did so but I thought it would be worthwhile discussing on here.

IMO successful putting isn’t just about the putter or changing to a different putter. Overall it consists of a few parts working together -

Equipment
Putting stroke
Reading of greens
Practice
Attitude

There are so very many different configurations of putters to choose from that it’s not surprising that most of us stick with what we have or what works well on the mat in the golf shop. How do you choose between brands, blade, semi-mallet, full mallet, face balanced, toe balanced, centre shaft, plumb neck shaft, length of putter, size of grip etc etc?

Some of the above will be personal choice and feel (e.g. for me visually I will only use a centre-shafted semi or full mallet putter) but some of the configuration of the ideal putter for each of us can be determined from technical data. This technical data can be obtained from a session on a SAM, Quintic or TrackMan system. Any of these systems should confirm various elements of your putting stroke (e.g. straight or arc, loft of face at strike etc etc) to give you the best options for a putter configuration. From this a decision can be made via feel, quality and accuracy of strike what the best putter is for you, even if it’s what you already have.

IMO, fitting for a putter is as important and arguably more important than fitting for a driver.

The consistency of putts will depend upon any movements in the putting stoke. The main difference that I take away from watching professional and the average amateur golfer is how steady and still the professional’s stroke is other than the pendulum type rocking of their shoulders. Watch Tiger putting for example. A lesson or putting assessment will show the idiosyncrasies of a current putting stroke.

Reading of greens IMO is a matter of experience. Sure, Greens books or lines and arrows on a Course Guide or on a GPS handset can assist reading of a green. However a walk up to and around the hole plus a side-on view for distance will give your brain the necessary information to decide upon the path and strength of a putt. Interpretation of that information will improve with practice. Most of us would benefit from balancing the time spent on the driving range and the practice putting green to see and absorb how the path of a putt is affected by slopes, speed of the green and weather conditions particularly immediately around the hole.

Make sure your attitude towards putting is to “love” the art. Many golfers I know say they hate putting because they are bad at it as they never practice on the putting green. Equally important though is not to beat yourself up if you miss a putt. Professionals on the pro tours miss little putts and us amateurs will absolutely miss putts during a round no matter what so learn from it but don't think about it after walking off the green.
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by Mikkei4 »

BobMunro wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:05 am
magicman wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:34 am
Along with Mikkei4, I wouldn't mind a meet up, so next season maybe a game could be arranged.

All the best Steve
I too would be up for a meet up next year.
Thanks guys for saying you'd be up for meeting for a round of golf in the new season. :thumbup:
It'd be great to get something arranged.
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by village »

Putting is definitely individual.

Smoothness of stroke is important as it having a straight club face on impact. I would bet that more people than you realise do not have a straight putter face on impact. Your hands need to be slightly ahead of the club face which makes it level.

I am of the opinion that all this walking around the ball,looking at the sideways view,looking at the ball from the hole back,wandering around etc is unnecessary time wasting.
This is my technique as taught to me by a pro…it has stood me in good stead.
Take the ball position and look at the hole. Decide the line/break and pick a spot to aim at eg three hole widths to the left. This might have a convenient leaf of whatever you can aim at. All golf balls have lines of text or alignment marks on them….use that to aim at that spot. Step back and (if left eye dominant) hold the shaft of your golf club plumb bob style up to the left hand side of the ball. The right hand side of the shaft should be on the aim point. If right eye dominant it will be the other way round. Then play a firm stroke to that target. Trust on the alignment of the ball and take a smooth stroke. Don’t watch where the ball goes as if you move your head you will affect the ball strike. Gary Player once said that from around about 6 foot in you shouldn’t even see the ball on the way to the hole but should hear it drop!

That set up should take no more than a few seconds tbh.
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Re: The Golf Topic

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village wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:21 pm Putting is definitely individual.

Smoothness of stroke is important as it having a straight club face on impact. I would bet that more people than you realise do not have a straight putter face on impact. Your hands need to be slightly ahead of the club face which makes it level.

I am of the opinion that all this walking around the ball,looking at the sideways view,looking at the ball from the hole back,wandering around etc is unnecessary time wasting.
This is my technique as taught to me by a pro…it has stood me in good stead.
Take the ball position and look at the hole. Decide the line/break and pick a spot to aim at eg three hole widths to the left. This might have a convenient leaf of whatever you can aim at. All golf balls have lines of text or alignment marks on them….use that to aim at that spot. Step back and (if left eye dominant) hold the shaft of your golf club plumb bob style up to the left hand side of the ball. The right hand side of the shaft should be on the aim point. If right eye dominant it will be the other way round. Then play a firm stroke to that target. Trust on the alignment of the ball and take a smooth stroke. Don’t watch where the ball goes as if you move your head you will affect the ball strike. Gary Player once said that from around about 6 foot in you shouldn’t even see the ball on the way to the hole but should hear it drop!

That set up should take no more than a few seconds tbh.
Indeed putting is individual and the numerous methods of considering the line from ball to hole can be either personal feel, gained from experience, seen on TV/Golf DVDs/youtube videos or instilled by lessons from professionals, many of who have their own opinions that might be different to the professional at another club. None are necessarily better than the other, just as many things are in golf, and it's finding the method that suits each of us that's important.

Any of the numerous methods can take as long or be as brief as each individual golfer makes it. "Wandering around, etc" is obviously time-wasting but I don't believe that "wandering around" has been suggested anywhere on here. Views of the lay of the green can often be seen when taking bags or trolleys to the correct point for the exit way to the next tee (to prevent wasting time going back to collect a bag or trolley left in the wrong place) and when returning the short way back to the ball while other players do the same or align their own putts by taking time to carefully place the alignment text or line on their ball at their own chosen aim point.

@village, I'm possibly not reading your method correctly but what criteria do you use to "decide the line/break" when standing behind the ball as the first action? What happens if the shaft of the putter is not on the aim point line after you've done the plumb bobbing? How do you judge the distance from ball to flag without taking a side view of ball to hole?
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Re: The Golf Topic

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Mikkei4 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:29 pm
The consistency of putts will depend upon any movements in the putting stoke. The main difference that I take away from watching professional and the average amateur golfer is how steady and still the professional’s stroke is other than the pendulum type rocking of their shoulders. Watch Tiger putting for example. A lesson or putting assessment will show the idiosyncrasies of a current putting stroke.
You are correct of course and looking at pros putting it's as if their hands and wrists are locked solid with just shoulder movement.

I think it's fair to say that Jack Nicklaus was a useful golfer!! His putting style was pretty much all wrist, which is against all the received wisdom today. Arnie was the same.
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Re: The Golf Topic

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BobMunro wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:40 pm
Mikkei4 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:29 pm
The consistency of putts will depend upon any movements in the putting stoke. The main difference that I take away from watching professional and the average amateur golfer is how steady and still the professional’s stroke is other than the pendulum type rocking of their shoulders. Watch Tiger putting for example. A lesson or putting assessment will show the idiosyncrasies of a current putting stroke.
You are correct of course and looking at pros putting it's as if their hands and wrists are locked solid with just shoulder movement.

I think it's fair to say that Jack Nicklaus was a useful golfer!! His putting style was pretty much all wrist, which is against all the received wisdom today. Arnie was the same.
Very true and just shows that the accepted norm isn't necessarily the best for everybody and that there's many ways in golf to accomplish the same result. Thankfully my subconscious must have guided me to use "idiosyncrasies" rather than "errors" :D
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Re: The Golf Topic

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Mikkei4 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:20 pm

@village, I'm possibly not reading your method correctly but what criteria do you use to "decide the line/break" when standing behind the ball as the first action? What happens if the shaft of the putter is not on the aim point line after you've done the plumb bobbing? How do you judge the distance from ball to flag without taking a side view of ball to hole?

Decide the line - I stand behind the ball and use my judgment. If I decide that I need to aim (say) two hole widths left of the hole then that’s my point. If after I’ve ‘plumb bobbed’ the ball doesn’t line up to my point of aim I adjust the ball accordingly.

Judging the weight needed. It’s going to change from day to day depending on the weather and the greens eg have they been cut recently.
Getting to the course slightly early and having time to spend 10 minutes on the practice green will help give you an idea (assuming the practice green is any good!). Otherwise it’s down to practice. The more you practice the more you will be able to judge weight. I honestly don’t think looking at it side on helps in any way. But that’s just me!
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Re: The Golf Topic

Post by Kip »

village wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:26 pm ............eg have they been cut recently.
Getting to the course slightly early and having time to spend 10 minutes on the practice green will help give you an idea (assuming the practice green is any good!). Otherwise it’s down to practice. The more you practice the more you will be able to judge weight. I honestly don’t think looking at it side on helps in any way. But that’s just me!
It also helps to determine if the practice green is cut on the same day as the course greens. Many courses do not cut both the same day or cut the practice green everyday.
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