Newbie question of the day...

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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by rkovars »

^^^This. You will never get market from a dealer. That is what they are hoping to get out of it. If the watch is something they know will be a slow mover they will generally take an even higher margin. What you are getting in return is the pain free transaction and payment. @iain has the best approach to get the best deal.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by 0uatiOW »

@iain I was wondering about your approach when I spoke to Watchfinder.

I made an enquiry about buying an expensive precious metal LE from my favourite brand, and inquired about a PX, thinking that they would make £Z on the piece I was taking, so they would perhaps be inclined to take less of a markup on my PX - that is, perhaps £Z/2 - so they would, when they sold mine on, make say £1.5Z in totality. The offer they made to me for the PX was so low that I don’t believe the “total profit” thought went through their mind. It was my impression that they saw each side of the deal as independent transactions, from which they were hoping to make £Z on each side. In fact, they offered me £4k for an unworn 3-month old £8k watch, which I suspect they could have sold for £6K.

Therefore, though my algebra isn’t what it was, if £Z = £2K, then WF = WTF? :explode:
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by iain »

^^^ I believe they do tend to not consider the total profit from the deal and often you will agent an automatic offer generated by the computer rather than a sensible one from a person. I know because I’ve been told this when I’ve mentioned an offer being incredibly low to start with. I now don’t use their on line request form as this is all you’ll ever get to start with.

With WF it really depends on the watch you are buying. Popular models they tend to move very little. Harder to sell ones, or ones you’ve watched for a while so you know have been sticking around tend to be easier to haggle over.

I think Bremont are a bit hit and miss. I did once buy a new one for 30% discount, wore it for 6 months and got pretty much what I paid in PX. Other times I’ve had to walk away.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by iain »

Patience is also something to consider.

When I traded my moonwatch with WF I had an idea of how much it was worth. They were going for £3800 to £4000 as a private sale, £4200 to £4500 on WF site. The opening offer was £3300 and we couldn’t agree so I walked away. About three weeks later a different salesperson contacted me and after a pleasant exchange were I laid out my thoughts we agreed on £3700. Not perfect but at about £100-200 less than I could have sold it but without the hassle I was happy.

You need to consider the whole package. I’ve had two watches develop faults under warranty and both times WF have paid in full for a full manufacturers service which has saved me hundreds both times. This is additional value to me and I’m happy to accept a little less of a bargain for piece of mind.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by iain »

Buying from WF is another thing. Someone once said “do your research”. WF offer a price match promise and when looking to buy a Seamaster I saw a watch with a UK dealer on chrono 24 and sent a link to the sale to WF, they immediately beat the sale price by £50 without question.

I’m happy to buy cheaper watches off people on the internet but when buying an often faked watch for £3500 I wanted it from a reputable source.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by RichM »

^^^ Yes, that's a good point. I wouldn't buy an high value watch from eBay and would want the confidence from something like Watchfinder knowing I'm paying a "pre-owned" premium.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by Soporsche »

I think there's some spot on observations in the thread and its a useful guide to the process. I have also had mixed results with WF and professional dealers. In principle, the automated email with an offer attached has been derisory or much lower than expected at best. Speaking to someone at WF has proved more fruitful especially if its a sales guy and I'm looking to part exchange against something they want to sell. Also helps if its something you purchases privately at a reasonable price
as opposed to new/retail on a readily available model where their only USP on selling will be price.
Example, I received an email offer of c.£1000 on a Tudor and the watch I wanted was c. £1750 so cost to change £750. They had not connected the margin they would make on the Tudor and the margin they were making on the watch I was buying.
2 in person conversations later they offered a cost to change of £400. OK the amounts weren't huge in this case but I could consider either a) I received a decent offer of 1350 for the Tudor or paid an attractive 1400 for the new watch, didn't matter to me as overall result the same.
But, I like this kind of negotiation and I was impatient.
Flip side, WF offered me 2200 against an as new 4 month old 4k watch which I refused and then sold very quickly privately for 3450 to a delighted buyer who couldn't negotiate a discount on a new one.
Selling on forum/ebay/chrono24 will usually achieve a higher price for not much (if any) more interaction and effort, buyer dependent of course 😀.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by tikkathree »

RichM wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:05 am ^^^ Yes, that's a good point. I wouldn't buy an high value watch from eBay and would want the confidence from something like Watchfinder knowing I'm paying a "pre-owned" premium.
To each their own but you don't seem impressed by EBay's authenticity guarantee?
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by RichM »

tikkathree wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:26 pm
RichM wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 10:05 am ^^^ Yes, that's a good point. I wouldn't buy an high value watch from eBay and would want the confidence from something like Watchfinder knowing I'm paying a "pre-owned" premium.
To each their own but you don't seem impressed by EBay's authenticity guarantee?
Tbf I've never used it but have read, possibly here, where it hasn't worked well and some parts of LE editions have gone missing between posting and receiving.

I suppose I also view ebay as buying low value stuff rather than luxury watches (although I've bought an £800 CW watch via ebay!). I guess if I'm spending more than, say, £1k I'd be a bit nervous. Quite happy to accept that it might be just ignorance on my part.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by missF »

RichM wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:56 pm I suppose I also view ebay as buying low value stuff rather than luxury watches
I’ve also always seen eBay as being for cheaper items, but I don’t think that’s based on any facts at all! :lol: EBay let’s me easily check out a seller, and let’s me contact them to ask more questions and check pics. So yeah - no reason to write them off. But for me their authenticity service wouldn’t influence whether I buy or not. I just don’t see how they can properly check for a fake Rolex without taking the caseback off. So their stamp of authenticity wouldn’t really reassure me.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by rkovars »

missF wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 2:16 pm
RichM wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:56 pm I suppose I also view ebay as buying low value stuff rather than luxury watches
I’ve also always seen eBay as being for cheaper items, but I don’t think that’s based on any facts at all! :lol: EBay let’s me easily check out a seller, and let’s me contact them to ask more questions and check pics. So yeah - no reason to write them off. But for me their authenticity service wouldn’t influence whether I buy or not. I just don’t see how they can properly check for a fake Rolex without taking the caseback off. So their stamp of authenticity wouldn’t really reassure me.
I haven't used the service personally but right on the website it says the movement is inspected as part of the process (I also think I heard the head of the program mention it in an interview).
Professional authenticators verify dozens of inspection points, including the movement, crown, bezel, dial, case, clasp/buckle, hands, end links, and serial number.

I think that one aspect that is a little overlooked is that they are also checking for listing accuracy. Which means that if someone sold a watch and said that it had an aftermarket dial this would be allowed even though it is technically not authentic. However if they didn't disclose that fact in the listing it should get flagged in the inspection and rejected.

I don't know how this is being handled in the UK but it is not the same people authenticating sneakers and watches. In the US they use Stoll & Co to do the watch authentication.
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Re: Newbie question of the day...

Post by missF »

rkovars wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:31 pm I haven't used the service personally but right on the website it says the movement is inspected as part of the process (I also think I heard the head of the program mention it in an interview).
My mistake and apologies for getting that wrong. I was certain that something was said on this forum about casebacks not being opened.
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