Modern watches - are they better or not?

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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Richard, I knew your response would be well thought out and interesting. You present a great case for so many features of the modern watch. :clap:
We will always differ totally in what we look for, so it's probably a good thing that there are so many outstanding modern AND vintage watches around.
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

gwells wrote: there was a lot of crap 50 yrs ago, too, most of which hasn't survived.
Indeed there was.
gwells wrote:even you, AVO, have modern watches for pursuits that aren't accommodated by a vintage watch (like swimming).
I certainly do - and I know I make a lot of silly tongue-in-cheek comments about swimming watches, especially expensive ones. :D

I started off with a question, and there are some VERY GOOD answers so far...keep 'em coming! :thumbup:
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by smegwina »

In addition to the fine answers above, my reason for preferring modern are mainly size. With the exception of my Navitimer, they are all far too small!

Another reason for choosing modern is variation. One thing that has always puzzled me with vintage collections is that most look the same to my philistine eyes! I have seen many threads on here questioning when someone has too many divers, or different colours of the same model etc, and yet I then look at vintage collections that have multiple gold case, cream dial, brown alligator strap 36mm watches that are all virtually identical. What is the point? :shock::cry:

I know, I know - I have no taste. ;) :)
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

smegwina wrote:...multiple gold case, cream dial, brown alligator strap 36mm watches that are all virtually identical. What is the point? :shock:
1. 33mm usually: 36 would have been a bit big. :lol:

2. How long have you got?
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by smegwina »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote:
smegwina wrote:...multiple gold case, cream dial, brown alligator strap 36mm watches that are all virtually identical. What is the point? :shock:
1. 33mm usually: 36 would have been a bit big. :lol:

2. How long have you got?
33mm :shock: I told you I was a philistine. ;)

Steve, it is certainly not my intention to be critical of any vintage watch collections so please do not take my comments as such. I just have a preference for the more modern, larger timepieces!
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

^^^Of course - it would never do if we were all the same. :D
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by smegwina »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote:^^^Of course - it would never do if we were all the same. :D
In saying that, I love your Marvin, but not convinced it would work in a 43mm case! :P

And as for your Leonidas......... ooh mama,

Maybe there is something in this vintage lark after all!
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Kip »

What a wonderful thought provoking post Steve.

My collection is really of two segments. CWL watches and everything else.

Thinking of it this way, I do believe that todays watches are better built, more durable and more accurate in general.

What attracts me to the vintage watches is the history and character of them. Although not accurate, I personally view vintage as pre quartz. I think it was scooter who said he wishes that the watch could share its story. I do as well. They are well built for what they are and with the slow moving watch technology of their era. Well cared for they will function with reasonable accuracy for generations to come.

Yes there was a lot of crap 50 years ago, but the same can be said now. Perhaps even more so with the proliferation of so many brands. Even todays crap with a quartz movement will keep more accurate time than many of the finast of what used to be available. There are of course exceptions to everything.

I can look at my collection from the oldest pocket watch I own that dates from 1860 all the way through to the current models. I see gold, silver, coin silver, base metal, plastic, wood, aluminum, diamonds, mother of pearl for cases. I see many different styles and designs fom diffrent decades. Many different type movements and escapements that are plain, industrial or highly decorated. If they could only talk....

My more modern watches, including my CWL's, will hopefully have a history that will speak in some way to my children in a way that I carry on with the vintage watches in my possession now. I collect history and make history with my collection.

Are modern better? I think it comes down to the perspective you take. Arguments can be made for all.
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by craigski »

AVO - I'm thinking of 'testing the time' with a vintage. I have just had a peek at your SOTC, and I think you are in a better position to answer your question than me :)

As others have said, I do understand there is a place for old and new in a collection.

However, I'm curious of your thought process for the recent purchase of the slimline? At that point in time you obviously thought modern was better than a vintage of a similar cost.
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

craigski wrote:AVO - I'm thinking of 'testing the time' with a vintage. I have just had a peek at your SOTC, and I think you are in a better position to answer your question than me :)

As others have said, I do understand there is a place for old and new in a collection.

However, I'm curious of your thought process for the recent purchase of the slimline? At that point in time you obviously thought modern was better than a vintage of a similar cost.
1. Good for you! Do you have any ideas yet?

2. Yes, I have always said there is a place for both - six of my watches are no more than a few years old.

3. Your 3rd point is a very complex question for me, but I will do my best to answer it...vintage "dress" watches have been my passion more or less since I started collecting. This thread my help explain it, as well as answering Smegwina's question.

On the other hand, I have always admired CW as a company and wanted to support what they are doing. My earlier CWs were experiments in style and size, and were sold on. I began to think I would never buy another. I was in the forefront of forum mutterings about smaller hand-winders and even got myself onto the 2013 FLEC, hoping that I might be able to influence the process. Democracy produced another 42mm automatic and I was out as far as buying the watch I was helping to produce was concerned.
My views were very polarised at the time:
IN: small, gold, hand-wound, simple, light, white-dial
OUT: large, black dial, automatic, bracelet, diver (I still hold to that to some extent, except for my Makos)

In the summer of 2013 two things happened. Chris announced a Slimline, hand-wound C5 for 2014, and I said publicly that if I liked it I would buy it. Also, a forum member sold a C3 MkI for a low price and I got lucky. I decided to give the 40mm case another try and realised it was fine. After months of searching I found a C1, and then came the Slimline. The two are almost identical in terms of size and depth. I had promised myself I would try it, so placed the order on Day 1. It's a lovely watch and I will be glad to get it working again. Would I keep it over against any of my "top" vintages? No.

It was partly my ennui with a 3-month-old watch that prompted the question at the top.

On another point, I can easily see the current FLE poll going the same way as the 2013 one, with the C65 winning. I have said that I will only be in if it's a C5S I happen to like...not many of those, sadly. I have also said that I won't vote if the chosen C5S is not one I like. It would be tempting to vote for it just to make sure that the C65 doesn't win, but I would feel a tad hypocritical and dog-in-a-manger if I did so.
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by craigski »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: 1. Good for you! Do you have any ideas yet?

My views were very polarised at the time:
IN: small, gold, hand-wound, simple, light, white-dial
OUT: large, black dial, automatic, bracelet, diver (I still hold to that to some extent, except for my Makos)
I'm looking at the Omega Chronostop or similar.
Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: My views were very polarised at the time:
IN: small, gold, hand-wound, simple, light, white-dial
OUT: large, black dial, automatic, bracelet, diver (I still hold to that to some extent, except for my Makos)
The Chronostop could tick a couple of boxes in your 'IN' but also in your 'OUT' views :)
Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: It was partly my ennui with a 3-month-old watch that prompted the question at the top.
The vintages that are still around today have the advantage that they have proven themselves, and any initial manufacturing/assembly problems have been resolved. Where as a brand new modern model has the disadvantage that it hasn't had time to fix issues.

I guess in 30 years time we will be in a better position to answer your question about todays modern models, until then no one really knows which is better :lol:
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

I've looked at and handled a few Chronostops. The '70s case style does nothing for me, I'm afraid, and also there's the lack of a minute register - pretty essential in the way I use a chronograph.

Also, to take your other point, I am aware that "most" of my vintages are high quality (Omega, Longines &c.) so perhaps I ought to compare them with what those companies are producing now.

And to come back to your original question about the Slimline. Given £400 to spend I would normally go and look for a vintage every time, but in this case I promised myself that I would get the Slimline.

What to go for would depend to some extent on the budget for me, and looking at what I already have...

Under £100 - modern (quartz or Orient/Seiko) every time, though with the hindsight I now have I would save up until I had several times that amount.
Over £100 and under £1000 - almost certainly vintage.
Over £1000 - very grey area - you are starting to nudge into the modern "luxury" sector with brands like Nomos coming in there. With vintage you should be starting to look at some very fine pieces, but the risks are greater and I would need to buy the seller to a very large degree at that point, taking things like servicing and movement guarantee as read.
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by craigski »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: What to go for would depend to some extent on the budget for me, and looking at what I already have...
Same for me, I dont currently have a vintage (or manual wind) in my collection, so I want to see what all the fuss is about :)

I have a couple of chrono's already with subdials, one is 16 years old (is that half modern or half vintage? :lol: best of both? ). I rarely use the chrono function, in fact the main use I have is to measure time for espresso coffee shots, as that's only 20 secs I wouldn't need a minute register in that use case.

Budget is about half of your 'almost certainly vintage' range :)
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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by akirk »

If you go back to your original analogy and compare cars - I am not sure that a 2014 car is always better than an older one...
Cars have had a shorter, faster development time than watches so lets assume that a car xx years old is the equivalent of a watch xxx years old... with both there is more care needed, more servicing, more skill perhaps in maintaining them in good condition - they are more likely to have quirks, but for both watches and cars the big difference is convenience against character / craftsmanship - whether it is a classic MG from the 60s or a bentley from the 30s, there are aspects of cars which are just not repeated in a modern car - yes a new range rover or bentley will be phenomenally luxurious, from heated steering wheels to air conditioned seats, but there is something about the way in which older cars were built which is just not repeated now...

So, I sort of understand your comparison, but think that perhaps there are aspects of both which have improved, and things we have lost in both...

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Re: Modern watches - are they better or not?

Post by bspj »

My 2001 E39 BMW has a far superior ride /handling compromise than any of the three cars I have had since (E Class Mercedes, E60, F11 BMWs). I still go to drive our E39 in favour of the F11 every morning. That's why I still have it after 13 years.

To be fair, I think it's more about BMW's obsession with runflats, and now with electric steering that that the cars are dynamically inferior. The more recent ones have been better cars in many ways.....just less good to drive!
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