Message From HRH.

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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Mortis »

lamppo_the_GasFitter wrote: Moris, it wasnt a silly rant, I just dont think you fully understand, if you follow the 5,10,25 years idea, you effectively remove wrong'ns from sociality until they are almost pensioners, and at that age couldnt do to much damage to anyone.
1. It's Mortis, as in Harbinger of Death. There's a "t" in there. Deal with it.
2. I don't think you understand. I presented you with some facts and evidence which showed why your suggestion was nonsense. You then repeated your suggestion. Perhaps you don't understand how debate or argument works, or perhaps you just aren't cut out for decision making or leadership. Either way, the only conclusion is that you are being silly; I'm right and you're wrong.

[/Bored and trying to rile an argument]
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Lamps »

Mortis wrote:
lamppo_the_GasFitter wrote: Moris, it wasnt a silly rant, I just dont think you fully understand, if you follow the 5,10,25 years idea, you effectively remove wrong'ns from sociality until they are almost pensioners, and at that age couldnt do to much damage to anyone.
1. It's Mortis, as in Harbinger of Death. There's a "t" in there. Deal with it.
2. I don't think you understand. I presented you with some facts and evidence which showed why your suggestion was nonsense. You then repeated your suggestion. Perhaps you don't understand how debate or argument works, or perhaps you just aren't cut out for decision making or leadership. Either way, the only conclusion is that you are being silly; I'm right and you're wrong.

[/Bored and trying to rile an argument]
Sorry old boy about the missing "t" I think I getting it now, Mortis as in rigor?

Last I heard USA are starting to see crime levels drop, and my idea is a good one, and the last time I was wrong was 1987, fact!
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Lamps »

Correction, it was 1988, so the last time I was wrong was now. Damm you Rigor!! :lol:
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

yes their crime levels are dropping, but it's nothing to do with sentence severity or length. All relevant studies show that the real deterrent in terms of crime is the fear of being caught NOT what happens afterwards. In the States they have had a huge increase in targeted policing, flooding specific crime hotspots with police forces on the streets when crime levels have threatened to increase.
It is this policy which has resulted in dropping crime levels. However, it should be noted that they are still WAY higher than more liberal countries, for example the Scandinavian bloc, where punishments are far less draconian, with fewer people incarcerated and a much higher emphasis placed on rehabilitation of prisoners rather than simple punishment.

Crime and punishment should not be about what makes us feel better (I would have flogged the guy who stole my car radio!! :lol: ) but about what actually works..
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Lamps »

Interesting, I think its to late to start with a liberal system now, I think we should us lock them up and not let them have kids!
:D

Not for the death penalty interestingly, used to be, but someone once put a very very argument to me against it and I changed my world view. (No, Moris, I'm not taking the ****)
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

there is a piece by the late ,great American stand up, Bill Hicks relating to arresting the children of trailer park dwellers as soon as they pop out of the womb! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Woodell »

highway62 wrote:yes their crime levels are dropping, but it's nothing to do with sentence severity or length. All relevant studies show that the real deterrent in terms of crime is the fear of being caught NOT what happens afterwards. In the States they have had a huge increase in targeted policing, flooding specific crime hotspots with police forces on the streets when crime levels have threatened to increase.
It is this policy which has resulted in dropping crime levels. However, it should be noted that they are still WAY higher than more liberal countries, for example the Scandinavian bloc, where punishments are far less draconian, with fewer people incarcerated and a much higher emphasis placed on rehabilitation of prisoners rather than simple punishment.

Crime and punishment should not be about what makes us feel better (I would have flogged the guy who stole my car radio!! :lol: ) but about what actually works..
Having lived around the world.....I would like to point out an observation.....The Scandinavian,Swiss,German,Japanese..
are a more homogeneous people than we Americans......In some states crime is greater among people who are criminals before they commit a crime because they are here Illegally!!! No one can immigrate to Japan...and become Japanese..
:lol:
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by scooter »

Woodell wrote:No one can immigrate to Japan...and become Japanese..
:lol:
Sean Connery (James Bond) did in "You Only Live Twice"

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highway62

Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

not sure it is possible to be a criminal BEFORE you commit a crime.....
the point stands anyway, all available evidence shows that rehab of prisoners is more effective than harsh punishment in terms of preventing re-offending. Unless we are willing to pay the price of massive and long term imprisonment, ie never letting people out, then really there is only one choice....
highway62

Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

too many spelling mistakes to list there, maybe not mentally SCARRED but certainly the schooling didn't work!! :lol:
as for not running if you're innocent, utter ****, I was involved in organising protests during the miner's strike and went on CND marches in the 80's...trust me, sometimes you run from the police, innocent though you may be....

think of various Irish miscarriages of justice and Jean Charles de Menezes..... :(

Even if they are guilty, say of shoplifting, and they run, out of fear, is that worthy of an execution as you seem to be suggesting?

and no, I'm not having a pop at the police, on the whole they have a **** job to do and they do it well, but in certain circumstances they cross the line and can be damn scary!
highway62

Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

you do not make policy based on one single case, no matter how horrific it might be.
'Hard cases make bad law'
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Woodell »

highway62 wrote:not sure it is possible to be a criminal BEFORE you commit a crime.....
the point stands anyway, all available evidence shows that rehab of prisoners is more effective than harsh punishment in terms of preventing re-offending. Unless we are willing to pay the price of massive and long term imprisonment, ie never letting people out, then really there is only one choice....
Re-read what I said....They are here illegally....In plain American..."They come into the U.S. without Passports...Without
reporting to proper govt. agency.....Not a legal entry into the sovereign nation of the United States of America....
once here they commit "more crimes"...It is a REAL problem here!!
They break into our country and then into our homes,etc. etc...
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

actually you need to read what I said again
my point was that they ARE criminals by virtue of their illegal entry to the US, having committed their first crime by entering the country by illegal means.
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by Woodell »

highway62 wrote:you do not make policy based on one single case, no matter how horrific it might be.
'Hard cases make bad law'
When Castro opened the prisons and sent them to US....Many were hard core killers.
True story.....Cuban asked guard in US for cig.....Guard said no......Cuban pulled out prison made knife and cut off his own finger...Told guard to give him cig. or he would cut off another of his fingers :shock: ....How do you rehabilitate
men like that?
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Re: Message From HRH.

Post by highway62 »

well on the Cuba issue, America could alleviate the issue by completely lifting it's long term and illegal embargo of the island...maybe then they would keep hold of their criminals!
quick bit of research ( too late for anything in depth! :lol: ) suggests that illegal immigrants account for about 6-8% of US crime...

by the way, before anyone thinks 'oooo, wish washy liberal!' I firmly believe that for serious crimes the sentence should fit the crime and that for those acts deserving of a life sentence, 'life' should mean exactly that, you are not released until in a box or well beyond the physical capacity to cause harm to anyone...
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