Favorite car?

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Dazmb
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Re: Favorite car?

Post by Dazmb »

Hans wrote::lol: Yes, we get Topgear in The Netherlands, love the show by the way, but they really offended me when they reviewed my Audi A4!! :fluch:
:wink:
Don't worry about Mr Clarkson Hans. He's a numpty who doesn't know a good car if it hit him on the head. These are my wheels. Clarkson doesn't like it, but it's a fantastic machine so I don't care!

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Re: Favorite car?

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I beg to disagree... I have to agree with mr. Clarkson here. I liked the previous Civic more than I like the current one. The current model LOOKS stunning, but the previous model cornered like a puppy Labrador on steroids. The current model corners like a normal family hatchback.

And I don't particularly like the A4. I think it's cramped, expensive, and that a lot more fun per euro can be had in... dare I say it'? Yes I do... a Skoda Octavia RS. Lovely torquey engine, which works much better than the same engine in my colleague's A4. Lovely exhaust note, and great suspension. It's a lot less bland than the A4. Too bad it doesn't have rear wheel drive - but neither has the A4. The A4, of course, has the more prestigious badge, but that feeling of pride of ownership evaporates quickly when you get into the Octavia RS and start having fun with it.

When it comes to sheer driving fun, I am very partial to the MX 5. It's not hugely powerful, it doesn't stick to the tarmac like **** to a blanket... but it is So Much Fun.

But then again, I realise that I would immediately digress -- which is probably why I drive an Avensis, which is rather bland too -- but at least it's bland in a quite comfortable, quite quiet, and quite roomy way. I am one who thinks that any corner worth taking is worth much more when taken on two wheels. I used to be a lover of the UJM, but currently I am veering towards a Transalp.

When it comes to cars, I mainly appreciate comfort, and in that sense the best car I have ever owned was a Citroën CX. That car was positively odd, and beyond comfortable in a way that only Citroën has ever cracked. This car wasn't just comfy... it was luscious. Even on the roughest cobblestone roads that Belgium has to offer, It was the driving equivalent to a copious dinner in a three-star restaurant. The suspension was unparallelled, and the seats were so superbly comfortable that they put many lounge chairs to shame... they embraced you, they cherished you, and they loved you.

And yes, it had speed humps for breakfast. ;-)

True... suspension and seats like these don't do much in terms of giving immediate cornering grip feedback. But then again, the steering and handling on this car didn't need that - this was a 15 foot limousine that had tons of roadholding, and that, in the right hands*, would corner with sports cars, and outdo them on late braking. The only car I have driven that might have had an advantage on the CX in the handling department was a GSA (yes, a Citroën, with the same suspension, and an equally able braking system).

"The right hands was rather an odd concept with older Citroëns. The Diravi power steering required some serious getting used to, and so did the brake pedal. One toe nudging it would be normal braking, two toes could constitute a (perfectly dosed) emergency stop... and stomping your foot on the brake would lead to the tarmac being torn to bits, and your eyeballs exiting their sockets. Normal drivers, who would be perfectly capable of expert driving in a normal car, would be driven crazy by the old Citroëns' odd behaviour.

So... when it comes to having fun while travelling, I'd have a bike. When it comes to travelling in comfort, I'd have a CX, or a DS. Or (yes, I'd have to admit it) an XM.
Or possibly a C6, but I haven't tried that one yet.

Come to think of it, my current 2 litre Avensis is not more comfortable, not roomier, not quicker, not quieter, and not more fuel-efficient than my 2.4 litre CX was. Hmmm... what happened to progress?

peter
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Re: Favorite car?

Post by Dazmb »

peterh wrote:I beg to disagree... I have to agree with mr. Clarkson here. I liked the previous Civic more than I like the current one. The current model LOOKS stunning, but the previous model cornered like a puppy Labrador on steroids. The current model corners like a normal family hatchback.
Trust me - he's ridiculously wrong with the new Civic Type R. I had the old EP3 model Type R for 2 years prior to getting the new one. It didn't handle better. People (and Clarkson) confuse the old model's twitchy chassis and steering which had almost no feel at all, such that you had no idea what direction the wheels were pointing in in relation to the steering input, and subsequently you always ended up over compensating with sharp wheel turns and that is confused for sharp handling. But that's all it was.

The new car is much more compliant with steering input and the suspension/chassis dynamics are MUCH better, except on really bumpy B roads where the new cars' torsion beam rear suspension can get bent out of shape a bit (but i've driven worse independent rear setups before....).

The new CTR has had overwhelmingly good reviews across most of the motoring press, and no-one has slated it - except Mr Clarkson. But remember he's controversial for a reason: it keeps him in £100k supercars. And he knows it.
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Re: Favorite car?

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It MIGHT be that we're measuring two different parameters here... when I took my friends Type R for a spin, I was looking for fun, not for performance. I don't care if it takes 3 seconds longer to take it round a track... in fact, that would mean that I'd have three more seconds of pure, unadulterated fun.

No doubt the new Civic is a much safer car to drive, at least for us average drivers... the handling hangs together quite a bit better, and indeed, the steering might be more precise. This takes the car's handling well into Golf-territory - which is exactly why I like the old one better. I just find it more fun.

But hey, what do I know? I'm a biker rather than a car enthusiast... I even liked the pre-1980 Civic because it was so much fun to drive! :D

As to Jeremy C slating the new Type R for the reason you cite: if that were the case, he would also have slated the old Type R (and the Mondeo, and the Clio, and each and every other affordable car), wouldn't he? But he doesn't.

Hey, he ripped MY car to bits. And from his point of view (it IS a bland car), I can see his point. I can't blame him for it - if you want to have a car that's fun to drive, don't get an Avensis.

cheers,
peter
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Re: Favorite car?

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peterh wrote:As to Jeremy C slating the new Type R for the reason you cite: if that were the case, he would also have slated the old Type R (and the Mondeo, and the Clio, and each and every other affordable car), wouldn't he? But he doesn't.

Hey, he ripped MY car to bits. And from his point of view (it IS a bland car), I can see his point. I can't blame him for it - if you want to have a car that's fun to drive, don't get an Avensis.
Trouble is Peter there is no substance behind most of the prejudices he has against the cars he slates. He's not recognised as a good driver (by the standards of The Stig or Tiff Needel - who both have the new CTR as their favourite hot hatch incidentely...), and he's not big on the understanding of mechanics and engineering. So he ends up not being able to articulate why he doesn't like a car! He comes out with these big statements but can't back them up with hard facts. Which makes him look a bit of a plonker to the more knowledgable types IMO.

I shall leave you with this Peter, a quote from The Times Online column that Clarkson has:
" Jeremy Clarkson's Dirty Dozen -
Twelve delicious pearls of literary wisdom from the keyboard of Jeremy Clarkson. If you own one of these cars, we apologise in advance....

No 12: Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano "
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/li ... 866074.ece

Widely regarded by many as THE greatest supercar on the planet at this moment in time, for it's blend of performance and handling.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarr ... 9_gtb.html
It's Evo mags car of the year 2006!

Yeah, that's a rubbish car Jeremy :lol:
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Re: Favorite car?

Post by Monkey »

This is my car....Mondeo ST220

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Had it since the summer and it replaced my ST200.

Ive had Ford ST's for the last 4 years and belong to an owners club, but the 220 is by far the best one I've had. It's got loads of space, drives superbly and the 3.0 V6 makes a great noise :D

It's not exactly economical to run :roll: but then I dont do a big mileage so not a huge concern at the mo!!

Some nice other cars posted up to....saw the 'debate' on the Civic Type R on TG recently, but having not driven either, cant really comment apart from saying I think the new one has moved things on a bit, and they are quite nippy......had a little play with one last week :wink:

I also like the Ford Mustang, especially the Saleen version, but I guess I could put up with a Shelby GT500, or maybe this one I saw at a show this year...

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Re: Favorite car?

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Dazmb wrote:Trouble is Peter there is no substance behind most of the prejudices he has against the cars he slates. He's not recognised as a good driver (by the standards of The Stig or Tiff Needel - who both have the new CTR as their favourite hot hatch incidentely...), and he's not big on the understanding of mechanics and engineering. So he ends up not being able to articulate why he doesn't like a car! He comes out with these big statements but can't back them up with hard facts.
In that sense, he's like most of us.
Point is, he will happily admit it, and does so on a regular basis, calling himself an overweight 40something with no special talents, and demonstrating how, if he switches all the handling aid electronics on a 599 off, his first attempt at actually cornering the car ends in a huge cloud of smoke concealing a stalled 599.

At least, he's like ME. I'm overweight, I used to be fourtysomething until a couple days ago, and I'm farily useless, bordering on dangerous, on a track. There is no real substance behind why I like or dislike cars (a Golf or an A4 is an excellent car, but I wouldn't want to be found dead in either of them), and I'm not particularly well versed on what makes a car handle.

But when I hit upon a car that I like, I know it. And in that sense, I can understand how Jem can like a Ford GT, and how Richard likes his Ford Mustang. Both are crap cars, but both have something going for them when it comes to sheer unadulterated fun - something the Evo wouldn't have.

To me, driving is not about getting the last 0,3 seconds off a lap time. To me, driving is about getting from A to B... that's why I have a bland car that Jeremy shredded to bits, while admitting that it would last for 3 centuries, and that its interior would withstand any disassembly attempt from a group of toddlers.

If driving would be about fun, I would not fancy an Evo myself. It may well be the perfect rallying machine, but I don't do rallies. I would love to have a bit of fun on the B-roads, though. For that purpose, an MX-5 would be ten times as good as an Evo. Come to think of it, an MG-B would be ten times as good as an Evo. I could NEVER get out of the Evo what it is capable of offering, and a 599 would have me dead before the third corner.

See the difference?

And if you look at Top Gear with that understanding, or read Jem's columns in that light, all of a sudden, you're reading or watching it in a different way. You can now ferociously disagree with any of the guys, and at the same time understand their reasoning, and thereby learn a bit about what makes cars tick, or rather, what makes us tick when it comes to cars.

Plus you get a good laugh out of it - as long as you don't make the mistake of taking them too seriously. They don't do that themselves. They have their reasons to like or dislike any particular car, you have your reasons to ferociously disagree with them on the subject. Right. Now let's go and grab a pint.

:-) :-) :-)
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