Why?

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
User avatar
mvlow
Senior Guru
Senior Guru
Posts: 644
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:29 pm
CW-watches: 2
Location: Oregon

Re: Why?

Post by mvlow »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:00 pm ^^^ In other words: be good, stay in your box and don’t get ideas above your station. Jude the Obscure.
I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. People will pay thee times what a certain watch brand is worth without blinking an eye, but God forbid a brand like CW get above their station and charge $3,000 for a watch even though it is worth much more.
These users thanked the author mvlow for the post (total 4):
Amor Vincit OmniaalbionphotojkbarnesROF68
Malcolm


CW C60 Vintage Hamilton Khaki Field Sinn 104 CW C65 Vintage GMT Monta Oceanking Elliot Brown Holton
User avatar
Amor Vincit Omnia
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 29894
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:34 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Why?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

iain wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:05 pm The link therefore is time. Newer brands seem to suffer from this more than those established ones. Even the hate for Rolex and Tag is driven entirely by newer practices rather than anything else

Why is this? I don’t know but there certainly seems to be a link there.
Bally upstarts, old chap. Different when I was a boy. People knew their place, what? :cylinder:


These users thanked the author Amor Vincit Omnia for the post (total 6):
iainmvlowgolfjunkysuicidal_orangeWileyECoyotethomcat00
Steve
Linguist; retired teacher; pilgrim; wannabe travel writer

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, kill nothing but time


Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. (Max Ehrmann)
what-time-is-it
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 3813
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:53 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: Why?

Post by what-time-is-it »

I haven't commented on the Bel Canto until now.

I think it's a nice watch, something different and it's good to see CW wanted to challenge themselves. I'm sure those who have ordered will be happy when they start to ship. Worth remembering however that it is using a cheap Selitta movement as a base.

It's not my type of watch so the price is irrelevant to me but I came to the conclusion a while back that CW are no longer a brand I will buy.

I've never really had an issue with the logo, but don't like the swish flag thing. I can live with it on the crown or caseback, but not on the dial, updating dials to now show just the logo reinforced my decision that it was time to move on.

Other negatives are the 5 year guarantee that was 4 years until they woke up

The brand entry cost has shifted considerably in the last couple of years. A simple search shows model ranges have continued to increase since outside investors joined the board. They may still have the same cost model, but they are now chasing customers with deeper pockets

How long will the name Christopher Ward last? It must be a nightmare having the name of an ex director on everything and being reminded 24/7! I'm guessing the swish is a compromise or a stepping stone until they do a complete name change or they are absorbed by another company

I'm not a hater and i like this forum to see what's going on, but can't see myself buying another CW again.
Current collection incl Citizen, G-Shock, Rolex, Seiko & Tag.

Chris
User avatar
golfjunky
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 6215
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:32 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Why?

Post by golfjunky »

nbg wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:35 pm What forums are you referring to Kip?

This please Kip, some evidence would be nice
Current collection = Omega Seamaster 2225.80.00, Omega Speedmaster 'Moonphase' 3576.50.00, Breitling Aerospace Evo, Vintage Azur, Vintage Seiko Sprtsman, Grand Seiko SBGX059, Omega SMP NTTD 210.92.42.20.01.001, Casioak Milkyway, Casioak Tiffany Sky.
User avatar
golfjunky
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 6215
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:32 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Why?

Post by golfjunky »

For whatever reason CW have never been able to be a ‘brand’ that can charge a certain amount on top just for the name.
Current collection = Omega Seamaster 2225.80.00, Omega Speedmaster 'Moonphase' 3576.50.00, Breitling Aerospace Evo, Vintage Azur, Vintage Seiko Sprtsman, Grand Seiko SBGX059, Omega SMP NTTD 210.92.42.20.01.001, Casioak Milkyway, Casioak Tiffany Sky.
nightMD
Junior
Junior
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:09 am
CW-watches: 7
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Why?

Post by nightMD »

Kip, perhaps you just have too much faith in people. I’ve given up on the haters, who seem to be everywhere. The ability to hide behind a keyboard while hating seems to have uncovered that there are more of them out there than any of us might have guessed, but ignorance and arrogance nothing new.

I can honestly afford almost any watch, but I buy what I like — what makes me smile. Nothing makes me happier than seeing a brand like CW push themselves to do the extraordinary—especially when that means bringing special (and previously unattainable) value to its customers. I mean, who doesn’t love an underdog story? Everyone—and every company—has to start from somewhere. The folks at CW have been transparent about who they are from the start — and they seem to love what they’re doing (while having a great time doing it). The Bel Canto is a cause for celebration in the watch industry. For those who don’t think it’s worth it… well there are 600 happy customers (and around $2M) to prove otherwise.
These users thanked the author nightMD for the post:
ROF68
User avatar
timor54
Trusted Seller
Trusted Seller
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:44 pm

Re: Why?

Post by timor54 »

what-time-is-it wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:22 pm
How long will the name Christopher Ward last? It must be a nightmare having the name of an ex director on everything and being reminded 24/7! I'm guessing the swish is a compromise or a stepping stone until they do a complete name change or they are absorbed by another company
I suspect that the brand name is/was a factor in the disdain that seemed to be expressed towards the brand in earlier days. An ‘upstart’ internet only brand with a long classically sounding British name on the dial; I saw more than one sneered jibe about Daniel Wellington in that context. This in turn was compounded by the endless changes in logo and branding. I suspect that deep down CW rue the day they chose their brand name.

I think the merger with Synergies Horologies in 2014 was probably the genesis of the modern CW. This gave them some credible horological chops with SH21 and subsequent product refinements and developments.

When MF and PE retire or step down I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the VC funders drop the CW name.
Tim
User avatar
Kip
The Administrator
The Administrator
Posts: 33729
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
CW-watches: 149
LE-one: yes
LE-two: yes
LE-three: yes
LE-foura: yes
LE-fourb: yes
LE-five: yes
LE-six: yes
LESeven: yes
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Why?

Post by Kip »

golfjunky wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:01 pm
nbg wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:35 pm What forums are you referring to Kip?

This please Kip, some evidence would be nice
Perhaps when I said haters in my OP it was a bit strong, but it was partly to put an emphasis on my question because we all know they are out there. I did go back and try looking for the specifics but couldn't find a lot without spending a lot more time and that wasn't the point anyway. I already spent enough time doing that initially. The comments were the usual type referencing marketing, price class and logo's. There are few comments more easily found on the CWA Facebook group, WatchCrunch and WatchUseek.

I will also state that the comments and reviews are overwhelmingly positive. :)
These users thanked the author Kip for the post:
nbg
Kip

"Asylum Administrator"


Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
JasH
Junior
Junior
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:52 pm

Re: Why?

Post by JasH »

I've mostly only seen extremely positive comments. Although as tastes differ, there are understandably those who dislike the watch. I've not seen outright hate or negativity personally.

In any case, I think the watch is incredible and a gamechanger for CW. It's on a completely different level from what came before, and I include the C60 Concept, which I find to be too chunky and not really best suited to a dive case.

I can't wait to receive my blue Bel Canto :)
User avatar
Richard D
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3047
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:59 pm
CW-watches: 0

Re: Why?

Post by Richard D »

Kip wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:03 am Perhaps when I said haters in my OP it was a bit strong, but it was partly to put an emphasis on my question because we all know they are out there. I did go back and try looking for the specifics but couldn't find a lot without spending a lot more time and that wasn't the point anyway. I already spent enough time doing that initially. The comments were the usual type referencing marketing, price class and logo's. There are few comments more easily found on the CWA Facebook group, WatchCrunch and WatchUseek.

I will also state that the comments and reviews are overwhelmingly positive. :)
I’m a member of the CWA Facebook group, they are overwhelmingly all about CW. I’ve not read any ‘hate’ or indeed many ‘dislike’ comments only observations similar to those expressed on this forum. I’m sure with the success of the Bel Canto, CW as a brand will attract even more attention be it positive or negative.
Richard
User avatar
ROF68
Junior
Junior
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:56 pm
CW-watches: 8
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: Why?

Post by ROF68 »

missF wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:29 pm
Fantastic news for CW. Mike France and the whole staff should be really proud. Sure they built an amazing watch but they also created something :thumbup:
Totally agree.
Tim
“It isn’t much good having anything exciting, if you can’t share it with somebody.” —Winnie the Pooh

C60 Atoll | C63 Sealander (white & hunter green) | C63 Highlander | C65 Sandhurst | C65 Trident Auto | C65 Trident GMT | C65 Anthropocene
unforced_error
Junior
Junior
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:50 pm
CW-watches: 1

Re: Why?

Post by unforced_error »

I honestly think the majority of hate comes from people who A) wouldn't buy the watch at any price point and/or B) don't have the financial means to buy the watch. It's the people who only have $4000 to spend so they'd rather have a watch with more brand recognition.

The collector group that I'm in is filled with guys who regularly buy a 5 or 6 figure watch every 2-3 months. The Bel Canto was unanimously praised for the complication and price point. Everyone can recognize the significance of the Bel Canto when compared to their own high-end watches.

I don't need the Bel Canto to be recognized or prove I'm well off.
C60 Trident Pro 600 COSC SH21 - Red Bezel/Black Dial
DavidHRC
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:16 pm

Re: Why?

Post by DavidHRC »

Perhaps CW is simply creating some disorder in the marketplace. Humans hate disorderly markets. They want everyone, every organization, and thing to fall into its proper place. CW upends this by selling at more price points and in more categories than most watchmakers. Just when I thought I understood CW's niche, they threaten order by adding an "haute horology" piece. If I collect at the high end, now there is a disruptive force that could possibly create more disorder, challenging the superiority of a watch in my collection, and possibly forcing me to ponder CW offerings in the future, making choices less simple. Every marketer realizes that more choices can terribly complicate consumer decision-making.
User avatar
golfjunky
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 6215
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:32 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Why?

Post by golfjunky »

Kip wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:03 am
golfjunky wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:01 pm
nbg wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:35 pm What forums are you referring to Kip?

This please Kip, some evidence would be nice
Perhaps when I said haters in my OP it was a bit strong, but it was partly to put an emphasis on my question because we all know they are out there. I did go back and try looking for the specifics but couldn't find a lot without spending a lot more time and that wasn't the point anyway. I already spent enough time doing that initially. The comments were the usual type referencing marketing, price class and logo's. There are few comments more easily found on the CWA Facebook group, WatchCrunch and WatchUseek.

I will also state that the comments and reviews are overwhelmingly positive. :)
So really the OP was just a call to arms
Current collection = Omega Seamaster 2225.80.00, Omega Speedmaster 'Moonphase' 3576.50.00, Breitling Aerospace Evo, Vintage Azur, Vintage Seiko Sprtsman, Grand Seiko SBGX059, Omega SMP NTTD 210.92.42.20.01.001, Casioak Milkyway, Casioak Tiffany Sky.
User avatar
Noush
Senior Guru
Senior Guru
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:30 am
CW-watches: 2
Location: Blue Mountains Australia

Re: Why?

Post by Noush »

I come to this discussion a bit late-on, but deliberately because I was curious as to how it would develop.
The human race remains somewhat tribal, and likely ever will be. What is your football team, have you always driven (say) Fords? [Bayern and no]
That sense of belonging, of peer approval and so on. That has been discussed here in some degree.

I find it curious how this translates into the world of watches. A world where tiny details on small objects create outbursts of passion: in turns of joy, indignation, justification and any number of responses. We know them - dots over 90, cyclops, logo at 9 o'clock, date windows at 4.30, an endless list.

The reality is that precious few even notice what is on your wrist, never mind care. Peer approval is almost entirely moot. Flexing a Royal Oak? Two seconds of sunshine....at best. I think most of us here choose our watches simply on what gives us joy and wonder of these marvellous little devices.

A great element of this virtual place is how we share that with each new arrival for each member no matter the watch. We recognise our own response and delight in it.

With Bel Canto, CW delivers and expands on its Mission Statement. It delivers an original piece of a kind that folks of less than stellar means can buy and enjoy. Well, 600 of them anyway. I missed out but life goes on and well, it's a watch for goodness' sake. It is not an intrusion on someone else's "territory". It requires no approval or recognition except by those who will wear it. It needs to be nothing it is not, or fall into a pre-conceived notion of what it should be, or is "allowed" to be.
It sprung from the passion of its creators and I'm glad it did.
These users thanked the author Noush for the post (total 3):
KipstraplineROF68
Chris
"Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans" : John Lennon.