Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:00 pm ^^^ In other words: be good, stay in your box and don’t get ideas above your station. Jude the Obscure.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. People will pay thee times what a certain watch brand is worth without blinking an eye, but God forbid a brand like CW get above their station and charge $3,000 for a watch even though it is worth much more.

iain wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:05 pm The link therefore is time. Newer brands seem to suffer from this more than those established ones. Even the hate for Rolex and Tag is driven entirely by newer practices rather than anything else

Why is this? I don’t know but there certainly seems to be a link there.

Bally upstarts, old chap. Different when I was a boy. People knew their place, what?

I haven't commented on the Bel Canto until now.

I think it's a nice watch, something different and it's good to see CW wanted to challenge themselves. I'm sure those who have ordered will be happy when they start to ship. Worth remembering however that it is using a cheap Selitta movement as a base.

It's not my type of watch so the price is irrelevant to me but I came to the conclusion a while back that CW are no longer a brand I will buy.

I've never really had an issue with the logo, but don't like the swish flag thing. I can live with it on the crown or caseback, but not on the dial, updating dials to now show just the logo reinforced my decision that it was time to move on.

Other negatives are the 5 year guarantee that was 4 years until they woke up

The brand entry cost has shifted considerably in the last couple of years. A simple search shows model ranges have continued to increase since outside investors joined the board. They may still have the same cost model, but they are now chasing customers with deeper pockets

How long will the name Christopher Ward last? It must be a nightmare having the name of an ex director on everything and being reminded 24/7! I'm guessing the swish is a compromise or a stepping stone until they do a complete name change or they are absorbed by another company

I'm not a hater and i like this forum to see what's going on, but can't see myself buying another CW again.

Kip, perhaps you just have too much faith in people. I’ve given up on the haters, who seem to be everywhere. The ability to hide behind a keyboard while hating seems to have uncovered that there are more of them out there than any of us might have guessed, but ignorance and arrogance nothing new.

I can honestly afford almost any watch, but I buy what I like — what makes me smile. Nothing makes me happier than seeing a brand like CW push themselves to do the extraordinary—especially when that means bringing special (and previously unattainable) value to its customers. I mean, who doesn’t love an underdog story? Everyone—and every company—has to start from somewhere. The folks at CW have been transparent about who they are from the start — and they seem to love what they’re doing (while having a great time doing it). The Bel Canto is a cause for celebration in the watch industry. For those who don’t think it’s worth it… well there are 600 happy customers (and around $2M) to prove otherwise.

what-time-is-it wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:22 pm
How long will the name Christopher Ward last? It must be a nightmare having the name of an ex director on everything and being reminded 24/7! I'm guessing the swish is a compromise or a stepping stone until they do a complete name change or they are absorbed by another company

I suspect that the brand name is/was a factor in the disdain that seemed to be expressed towards the brand in earlier days. An ‘upstart’ internet only brand with a long classically sounding British name on the dial; I saw more than one sneered jibe about Daniel Wellington in that context. This in turn was compounded by the endless changes in logo and branding. I suspect that deep down CW rue the day they chose their brand name.

I think the merger with Synergies Horologies in 2014 was probably the genesis of the modern CW. This gave them some credible horological chops with SH21 and subsequent product refinements and developments.

When MF and PE retire or step down I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the VC funders drop the CW name.

golfjunky wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:01 pm

nbg wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:35 pm What forums are you referring to Kip?

This please Kip, some evidence would be nice

Perhaps when I said haters in my OP it was a bit strong, but it was partly to put an emphasis on my question because we all know they are out there. I did go back and try looking for the specifics but couldn't find a lot without spending a lot more time and that wasn't the point anyway. I already spent enough time doing that initially. The comments were the usual type referencing marketing, price class and logo's. There are few comments more easily found on the CWA Facebook group, WatchCrunch and WatchUseek.

I will also state that the comments and reviews are overwhelmingly positive.

I've mostly only seen extremely positive comments. Although as tastes differ, there are understandably those who dislike the watch. I've not seen outright hate or negativity personally.

In any case, I think the watch is incredible and a gamechanger for CW. It's on a completely different level from what came before, and I include the C60 Concept, which I find to be too chunky and not really best suited to a dive case.

I can't wait to receive my blue Bel Canto

Kip wrote: ↑Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:03 am Perhaps when I said haters in my OP it was a bit strong, but it was partly to put an emphasis on my question because we all know they are out there. I did go back and try looking for the specifics but couldn't find a lot without spending a lot more time and that wasn't the point anyway. I already spent enough time doing that initially. The comments were the usual type referencing marketing, price class and logo's. There are few comments more easily found on the CWA Facebook group, WatchCrunch and WatchUseek.

I will also state that the comments and reviews are overwhelmingly positive.

I’m a member of the CWA Facebook group, they are overwhelmingly all about CW. I’ve not read any ‘hate’ or indeed many ‘dislike’ comments only observations similar to those expressed on this forum. I’m sure with the success of the Bel Canto, CW as a brand will attract even more attention be it positive or negative.

missF wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:29 pm
Fantastic news for CW. Mike France and the whole staff should be really proud. Sure they built an amazing watch but they also created something

Totally agree.

I honestly think the majority of hate comes from people who A) wouldn't buy the watch at any price point and/or B) don't have the financial means to buy the watch. It's the people who only have $4000 to spend so they'd rather have a watch with more brand recognition.

The collector group that I'm in is filled with guys who regularly buy a 5 or 6 figure watch every 2-3 months. The Bel Canto was unanimously praised for the complication and price point. Everyone can recognize the significance of the Bel Canto when compared to their own high-end watches.

I don't need the Bel Canto to be recognized or prove I'm well off.

Perhaps CW is simply creating some disorder in the marketplace. Humans hate disorderly markets. They want everyone, every organization, and thing to fall into its proper place. CW upends this by selling at more price points and in more categories than most watchmakers. Just when I thought I understood CW's niche, they threaten order by adding an "haute horology" piece. If I collect at the high end, now there is a disruptive force that could possibly create more disorder, challenging the superiority of a watch in my collection, and possibly forcing me to ponder CW offerings in the future, making choices less simple. Every marketer realizes that more choices can terribly complicate consumer decision-making.

I come to this discussion a bit late-on, but deliberately because I was curious as to how it would develop.
The human race remains somewhat tribal, and likely ever will be. What is your football team, have you always driven (say) Fords? [Bayern and no]
That sense of belonging, of peer approval and so on. That has been discussed here in some degree.

I find it curious how this translates into the world of watches. A world where tiny details on small objects create outbursts of passion: in turns of joy, indignation, justification and any number of responses. We know them - dots over 90, cyclops, logo at 9 o'clock, date windows at 4.30, an endless list.

The reality is that precious few even notice what is on your wrist, never mind care. Peer approval is almost entirely moot. Flexing a Royal Oak? Two seconds of sunshine....at best. I think most of us here choose our watches simply on what gives us joy and wonder of these marvellous little devices.

A great element of this virtual place is how we share that with each new arrival for each member no matter the watch. We recognise our own response and delight in it.

With Bel Canto, CW delivers and expands on its Mission Statement. It delivers an original piece of a kind that folks of less than stellar means can buy and enjoy. Well, 600 of them anyway. I missed out but life goes on and well, it's a watch for goodness' sake. It is not an intrusion on someone else's "territory". It requires no approval or recognition except by those who will wear it. It needs to be nothing it is not, or fall into a pre-conceived notion of what it should be, or is "allowed" to be.
It sprung from the passion of its creators and I'm glad it did.