golfjunky wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:02 pm
How much does it cost Rolex to make a £7k Sub?

£600 manufacturing cost + £3000 marketing.

Caller wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 4:44 pm

golfjunky wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:02 pm With regards to your last sentence, nor do any other micro’s though.

But do you really view CW as being a microbrand? I think they are established mainstream now. Certainly in the UK. I may be the only person that wears one in Thailand. I took one to Vietnam a few weeks ago as well. But they don't really have a presence there!

My last sentence applies to a lot of brands, mainstream or otherwise, it was just for those that mention here that CW is the only forum they use. It must give a distorted view on thiings.

There was a thread recently over there, and I truly am not sure off the top of my head, what brand it was about, but someone asked the question, why does brand x never get a mention here. I had never given it a thought.

But generally, unless a brand has a new release that is notable, or a member posts about a new watch, which generates discussion, some brands never really get mentioned. You are as likely to read about vintage watches, citizen and seiko, as much as you would about any of the so-called big boys.

I've been told by my Chinese colleagues that in China if a brand doesn't have a retail presence it will be very hard to get attention. Is this similar in Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines and maybe even in Japan? I'm just curious.

albionphoto wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:38 pmI've been told by my Chinese colleagues that in China if a brand doesn't have a retail presence it will be very hard to get attention. Is this similar in Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines and maybe even in Japan? I'm just curious.

I really think that was the point I was getting at, maybe not clearly. And also I quite liked the fact that maybe I was the only one wearing a CW where I was?

I thought the same when I took this pic overlooking Noosa main beach on the Sunshine Coast, in Queensland on NYE 2015. Was I the only one wearing a CW in the whole of Oz? Then I remembered Gaf, who is actually just down the road (by Oz standards) from where this pic is taken. Funnily enough, I have been wearing the same watch today, on it's new vintage strap.

Dilbert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:48 pm I remain delighted with my CW and impressed by the company. It’s more innovative — from the Supercompressor to the Bel Canto — than so many other brands. The build quality is superb, and the Light-catcher’s lovely.

However, a WUS thread left me wondering what on earth’s going on with people

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/do-y ... h.5486925/

Why do some people use terms like “disdain” towards CW?! It’s bizarre. And entirely unwarranted.

Yes, that pretty much sums it up. Customer service has been flaky in the past and inconsistent in dealing with some issues, there is also the fact that people love to complain and try to pull things down rather than support and help build. It seems to be a human nature thing and certainly more prevalent in the UK these days.

MichaelMD wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:38 pm I think the main gripes about CW in the WIS community tend to involve the logo and its many iterations, the name which to some sounds like a fashion brand, the lack of in-house movements, and sort of a lack of a brand identity. A lot of their releases also tend to be derivative of other well-known brands and references.

I really think rolling out in-house movements would go a long way towards boosting their reputation. I'm sure they are headed in that direction.

I love their stuff personally, and everything comes at a price. Part of the reason they are so affordable is that they outsource movements.

I'd say that the main reason for remaining affordable is the online only sales model. Start pricing in a cut for middle men ADs and the price would rise significantly.

On the topic of copying other brands, all brands do it and have done it since the beginning of watchmaking, from the blatant copying to homages to gentle nods to the original design and if manufacturers want to sell products, they need to follow fashion. "There is nothing new under the sun".

MarkingTime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:09 pm I'd say that the main reason for remaining affordable is the online only sales model. Start pricing in a cut for middle men ADs and the price would rise significantly.

On the topic of copying other brands, all brands do it and have done it since the beginning of watchmaking, from the blatant copying to homages to gentle nods to the original design and if manufacturers want to sell products, they need to follow fashion. "There is nothing new under the sun".

The commonly quoted pricing through retail is 50% for the manufacturer and 50% for the retailer. This allows the retailer to give discounts if necessary but also to make some money on selling the watch. A Bel Canto at $7,000 is probably still a bargain but a C65 Aquitaine at $2,000 might not be. I have approximated the prices but doubling the price can change perspectives quite a lot.

There are certain "template watches" that everyone copies. In the dive watch space these are (at least) the Blancpain fifty fathoms and the Rolex Submariner. It's hard to make a dive watch that doesn't look like either of these. Some early CWs were closer to the template than the current ones but the wider world loves to hammer CW for this. The Aquitaine line seem, even to me, to be very close to the Blancpain. Too close, I'd say.

The word homage is used in two ways in the watch world. Primarily it is used in the derogatory sense in that homage = copy. Very rarely is it used in the proper way Homage = pay respect to. The Aquitaine is a copy but the C63 Sealander is a true homage. it pays respect to the explorer but does not copy it. Christopher Ward have to follow fashion to an extent. They seldom lead it for certain. It's like the old joke about Radio 4. If a popular song or trend is discussed on Radio 4 then it's over. The same is true of Christopher Ward, Want to know if the integrated bracelet trend is over? Say hello to "the Twelve". I am over egging the pudding but CW certainly aren't leaders in trend setting, are they?

To be honest, there's only so much you can do with a round watch, isn't there?

Its like trainers. Every brand has their own design style, so you can tell them apart. But they are all trainers. Unlike shoes, where you couldn't distinguish the shoemaker from the shoe ( except for the copyrighted? red sole of a louboutin, say.)

Take jewellery. Very expensive, but virtually impossible to "brand". A ring is a ring is a ring. Yet a Tiffany ring costs more than an Ernest Jones ring, as an example.