who makes CW's watch cases?

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tempusmaximus
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by tempusmaximus »

j&t windmills watches have recently won a court case so they can use made in England on there dials .parts for there watches are sourced from china and Switzerland ,but because the watches are assembled here they can use made in England on the dial ie when it comes into the country as parts it isn't classed as a watch it only becomes a watch when put together here in the uk.so if other watch brands source there cases fom china but assemble them in Switzerland it must be able to use swiss made.

edit I believe the court case was in 06/07
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by Jape »

akirk wrote:presumably if a chap / chapess from Switzerland came over to the UK and made watches - they could put swiss made on the front?! - made by a swiss bod...
Not quite, I think. :)

This is taken from wikipedia (not the best of sources, I agree, but can also be found on FH site):

"A watch is considered Swiss, according to the Swiss law if:
its movement is Swiss and,
its movement is cased up in Switzerland and;
the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland"

Of course, one could put the "Swiss Made" on a watch with impunity if no one challenges it. However, the FH might...
http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by akirk »

but I don't think that the Swiss have any authority outside Switzerland do they?
if it is an accurate description under English law / language, i.e. not in breach of Trade Descriptions Act, and this was made clear wherever relevant - I am not sure how the Swiss could feel they had authority over e.g. a British company selling in Britain... particularly if it didn't breach our laws...

of course it is an absurd example - but it is to illustrate a point...

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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by Jape »

akirk wrote:but I don't think that the Swiss have any authority outside Switzerland do they?
if it is an accurate description under English law / language, i.e. not in breach of Trade Descriptions Act, and this was made clear wherever relevant - I am not sure how the Swiss could feel they had authority over e.g. a British company selling in Britain... particularly if it didn't breach our laws...

of course it is an absurd example - but it is to illustrate a point...

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The FH works with the British authorities, based on bi-lateral treaties etc. Not being an expert on law, not sure how this actually works or how hard they try to protect the brand "Swiss Made". I would think the UK authorities co-operate fully. Now a country like China is probably a different matter.
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by tempusmaximus »

thankyou kip that's very interesting
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by BNABOD »

I just asked the original question out of curiosity more than anything else. Some will question CW and it's premium quality for cheaper but I for one realize that what they offer is quite good for the price even though we are seeing some jumps. I really have no issue if some Chinese dude makes the case in 316L, most everything is made there these days which is sad but to survive if that is what that we have to do as a brand then so be it. The Chinese can make jets, submarines (Ti) so I have no real worry they can make a watch case. I get the swiss alps may not be the place to set up a foundry but to me as long as some CW contractor in Switzerland or the UK finishes the case then that would be good enough for me. However if no one touches it then I see that as a bit disappointing but not unexpected
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by ianblyth »

Interesting wording on that article. 60% of the value. That means they can get the Chinese to churn out cheap components like cases and add value by hand polishing brushing or doing other things to the watch as a whole. Very cleverly worded.
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by akirk »

ianblyth wrote:Interesting wording on that article. 60% of the value. That means they can get the Chinese to churn out cheap components like cases and add value by hand polishing brushing or doing other things to the watch as a whole. Very cleverly worded.
That is going to be a nightmare to police... so 60% of the value of a watch which sponsors Pierce Brosnan - what % might be argued to be in the sponsorship deal - how do you define the value - is it purely component / is it brand / ??? Could you have a watch 100% made in Switzerland, but under 60% of the cost of the watch is the manufacture - therefore, it could be argued that you could make the watch in Switzerland and yet the value is added elsewhere - therefore not Swiss?!

could you make a watch 100% in china, costing £20 - add a brand badge in Switzerland to retail at £50 - 60% of the value was added in Switzerland - therefore = Swiss Made...

value is surely a meaningless statement and needs to be qualified...?

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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by tempusmaximus »

I was under the impression that this was only 60% of the value of the movement and that this did not include the case ,strap,crystal or dial. to be classed as swiss made

a, the movement must be swiss (are all the parts of a movement sourced in switzerland)
b,the movement must be cased and inspected by the manufacturer

most watch dials are made in Taiwan
most watch hands are made in japan
most watch crystals,cases and straps are Chinese made

most swiss watch companies source there parts from these countries ,if it was just down to the policing of the movements then I would think it should be far less complicated .
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by Kip »

This is a simple article that might add some perspective to the new Swiss law.



SWISS MADE A TICKING TIME BOMB . . ..

July 17, 2013 at 3:56am
The new 60% Swiss made rule in my opinion is a ticking time bomb as this immediately puts emphasis on where rest of the 40% is being made...well exactly in the same place as it has been for the past 40 years...in Asia.

For over 4 decades now most Swiss watchmakers have enjoyed an added advantage of using cheaper imported (Asian made) parts in their Swiss made watches, and this change now is only happening because their hushed, secretive Swiss made code is being openly leveraged by (overseas) brands like VOILA - in a way these truly are - Revolutions in Time!

We all know Switzerland does not own, produce or mine any Gold, Platinum or Diamonds, so technically none of their high end jewellery watches fitted with precious stones or metals can now claim their precious Swiss Made mark, well that's what you think. The Swiss with all their 'Swissness' have played these rules to read 'Swiss value'* and not 'Swiss components' which grants them an infinite authority to accommodate R&D, design, and 'you name it' costs in order to fit into this 60% rule. The rest of the 40% could even mean your Swiss made watch parts can now be a 100% sourced anywhere in the world including China with China made movements. This will lead to an open disclosure of hefty margins retained in Swiss made watches, a disaster for their horological and other industries.

The Chinese insisted on stricter Swiss Made rules in lieu of relaxed import duties with an (obvious) agenda to strengthen their own brands. With this new 60% rule, more and more watches will be globally manufactured and will become increasingly acceptable to all levels of watch buyers.

It’s not hard to see this law was designed to benefit 1 or 2 big players and at the cost of numerous Swiss jobs, all this will hurt the smaller Swiss manufacturers, and gives larger groups an added advantage and a new reason to raise their prices.

It did take the Swiss parliament six years to light this fuse, and may take another 5-10 years till this blows up and it eventually will. In the meantime the Asian watch industries along with American micro brands are laughing all the way to the Bank. There still maybe time to cull this fuse as its either got to be a 100% Swiss or the ’Swiss Made’ rules must remain as they were.

Roger KHEMLANI

Founder & Creative Director

House of VOILA


* The Swissness bill, sets at 60% the minimum rate of 'Swiss value' for Swiss industrial products to be marked Swiss Made & not 60% of Swiss raw materials &/or components as most of us perceive this to be; you may verify this at http://www.fhs.ch/en/news/news.php?id=1172

60% Swiss Made, 40% Made in ?

60% Swiss Made, 40% Made in ?
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Re: who makes CW's watch cases?

Post by akirk »

it is an interesting development...
I can see that in the future more value may well be placed on more tangible aspects of how watches are made / brands act...
e.g. the JJ partnership for CW could prove to be a clever move for the future - having a 'watchmaker' may mean more than where in the world the case milling machine happens to be plugged in!

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